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Thursday, December 18, 2008

Antulay's controversial comments: Reaction, over-reaction and hysteria


AR Antulay's comments have caused a major controversy and there is tremendous anger [more among anchors and news readers] that how he 'dared utter such a thing'.

I know it's rather risky to write about it but I feel compelled. There is no way to find out whether it was Antulay's real suspicion over the issue which came out due to a slip of tongue or whether it was calculated-mischievous move.

Yes, it could be termed as irresponsible as it comes from a minister. Antulay can't expect Congress to reward him and neither it will make Muslims happy. But one thing is certain, the reaction of media has been extreme and poses the danger of ours becoming an Orwellian state where anything which is slightly 'politically incorrect' or 'not in sync with what is expected of you' is termed as anti-national.

But isn't it good that he spoke his mind and we know what he was thinking? And at least, he is firm on his views, howsoever weird or absurd they may be, and says that he doesn't owe explanation. "I have not met Sonia Gandhi or Manmohan Singh and I stand by what I said", said the former Maharashtra CM.

Still, what Antulay has said is nothing in comparison to what many others including historian Amaresh Misra have been saying like the Marathi-speaking persons involved in the shootout and that Siamin sect of Zionist Jews who go to any extent to sacrifice their lives for Mossad's grand plans. Personally I don't have any regard for conspiracy theories like the ones propagated by Misra, who is known for his 10-volume work on 1857 struggle.

But the 'anti-national' tag given to Antulay by our war-mongering electronic media is also an over-reaction. What did he exactly say? In the context of Hemant Karkare's death, he had said that the slain officer was victim of 'terrorism or terrorism plus something. I do not know'. Later he said that he wanted to know who had sent him 'in the wrong direction' towards Cama hospital instead of Taj or Oberoi hotels or Nariman House, which were on fire.

The media has played up the issue and said that his statement has been damaging to our case. Though it is not. Misra has given interviews to international TV channels and his theory is quite far-reaching and it is this theory which is doing the rounds in Pakistan. So labelling Antulay [specifically mentioning him as Abdur Rahman Antulay at places] anti-national and saying that he is 'speaking the language of Pakistan' is another extreme.

Misra is termed crackpot and dimissed but Antulay is termed anti-national! Yes, he has raised a doubt (even if it is mischievous, or for a moment accept that he is genuinely having doubts), the latter is called anti-national for not saying anything remotely close to it in comparison.

Abdur Rahman Antulay is a seasoned politician and former Chief Minister of Maharashtra. He is currently a Union Minister heading the Minority Affairs' Ministry. Antulay has asked for an inquiry into the killings. Expressing doubt should be okay. Why is asking for an inquiry termed anti-national. Wasn't he [Karkare] the man who was receiving threats and calls that his house would be burnt? Let us not be hypocritical. TV is always ready to play up statements of the society for the sake of TRP.

Idealistically speaking, being anti-establishment doesn't mean one is anti-national. And he is himself part of the government, which makes him appear foolish. He has raised questions about the particular three deaths. He was not anti-establishment.

Times of India group's Economic Times turned hysterical when it gave a headline 'Meet Kasab's attorney Antulay'. Whose war is being waged on newspaper? Antulay either mischievously or innocently suggests that there was something bizarre the way the three officers rushed from one site to another and ended up getting killed 'so easily'.

If you read between the lines, it is like 'some hardcored disgruntled RSS-Bajrang Dal-Shiv Sena guy took advantage of the situation and eliminated the trio. Perhaps this is what he suggests. Or he meant that terrorist killed them but there was inefficiency on part of the Control Room or the officials who were sending them from one place to another. Whatever.

May be, it is weird. However, where does Kasab gets into picture? But the hysteria over the statement is equally disturbing. Whether there is investigation or not, and whether questions like 'which bullet was recovered from the bodies of the three officers or the record of cell phones to find out the last call from the officers who asked them to reach those places'.

Or if the politician has erred and said something which is politically incorrect, it is not the first such occasion. Politicians have let us down so many times. Who said that LK Advani was anti-national when he was crying for the torture of Sadhvi Pragya.

After all, when it is the norm to term anybody accused of terror, as terrorist then Abu Bashar is equally a terrorist as Waliullah as Pragya Bharti and as Lt Col Purohit. Advani went to the extent to talking to Prime Minister over the issue. Such was dishonesty of BJP, Shiv Sena, VHP and a host of other organisations, that they had termed Karkare as 'anti-national'.

Alas, Nationalism seems to have been appropriated by RSS. There was demand that he should be arrested and even hard-core organisations wanted ATS chief to be put under narco analysis. There were much more vicious and dirty things said.

Rationalism never took root and objectivity has no place in society now. There are always guys on the fringe who raise theories and are suspicious. So shouldn't we have a few of them?

In the past there have been worst examples of hatespeak, communal, casteist divide and statements on riots of 1984 to 2002. When was the national media so incensed that it called some politician anti-national? Even Raj Thackery was let off with admonition. Or this tag is reserved for Muslims!When does asking for an inquiry become a crime?Criticise Antualy or Forgive him. Open up things to silence or just shut him upt.

But calling him pro-Pakistani (even ISI agent) is non-serious. Asking questions should not be considered wrong in any democracy.The anger against Antule is worrying. He didn't say such a highly objectionable thing. But the public anger fueled by electronic media, has created such a situation that you can't utter word.

However, it was the same Karkare against whom Priests and Hindutva leaders had ganged up. They had demanded narco test of Karkare and there was no outrage then. A senior journalist and columnist wrote in the article 'that he has been insensitive. Wasn't RR Patil more insensitive. Patil had termed the entire tragedy of terror attack as a minor thing in a big city.

Antulay has perhaps made a fool of himself by his statement Let him and his party suffer but we should not be hysterical in our approach. Speaking out and making a point should not be a crime. Let them speak. Silencing is not healthy in democracy.

UPDATE
"Karkare wasn't killed by Hindus, he was shot by terrorists", said a Muslim fruit seller in Mumbai's Bhind Bazaar. Another Muslim vendor, Rafiq Sheikh rubbished the conspiracy theory. Haroon Sheikh, a shopkeeper on Mohammad Ali Road, termed the comments as ones that would bring trouble for Muslims and 'immature'. Read Kiran Tare's story in DNA. That's street voice and among elite, Javed Akhtar, Javed Anand and a host of others have criticised him.

38 comments:

Nbz said...

Nice analysis indscribe. Hard hitting!

But i am afraid in this vitiated and jingoistic environment you will be accused of playing the minority card!

Anonymous said...

Why dont you realize that there is a difference between Antulay and any random person spouting a conspiracy theory - ABDUL REHMAN ANTULAY IS A UNION CABINET MINISTER, and that carries a responsibility. HE HAS NO BUSINESS TO NEGATE THE CASE THAT INDIA IS BUILDING AGAINST PAKISTAN.

Amresh Mishra, Arundhati Roy and other crackpots are not cabinet ministers. AR Antulay is a cabinet minister. There is concept called COLLECTIVE RESPONSIBILITY and the authority of the PM.

Lastly, if he had only been making a fool of himself it wouldnt have been a big deal. But this is a time of national crisis when India is building pressure against pakistan. Tomorrow if Zardari quotes Antulay and raises doubts then what answer will India give back?

Realize this - Antulay is not only embarrassing himself and his party but ALSO UNDERMINING INDIA'S CASE AGAINST PAKISTAN.

He is a member of the govt, why couldnt he have asked the police of Mumbai for clarification before making such a statement to the media. Today the TOI has carried the detail of the entire sequence of events leading to the death of Karkare and others negating any conspiracy.

HE SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF HIMSELF AND SACKED IMMEDIATELY.

Anonymous said...

Main point is that,

a. He is a union minister whose words carry worth.

b. He is negating Indias case against pakistan, when he HAS NO EVIDENCE TO BACK HIS CLAIMS.

Tomorrow if Zardari quotes Antulay to save his skin then what answer will India have?

Antulay should be sacked immediately. He can air whatever personal views he may have on this issue, but not as long as he is a minister.

indscribe said...

NBZ @ Thanks

Anon @ Perfect Point. He is a cabinet minister. That's why it's wrong. Let him and his party suffer.

But the objection is calling someone 'anti-national','Pro-Pak' and 'ISI agent' is taking it too far.

Anonymous said...

(I am anon of post #2)
This is also the time to realize that the present arrangement of the UPA govt of having a PM Manmohan Singh who does not have any political authority has caused immense harm to the authority of the Prime Minister and to the sanctity of the union cabinet.
This is the reason that we have had to put up with Shivraj Patil for so long, why ministers keep giving statements which are out of turn and often contradictory to the official position. This latest Antulay episode is another fallout of the degradation of the PMs authority.
We cannot have 5 more years of a toothless PM who cant even sack his own ministers. This arrangement may have worked in normal circumstances but India is facing a national crisis in internal security and terrorism. We need to have strong authority in the PMs chair.

NO MORE PUPPET PM. IF CONGRESS WINS THEN SONIA OR RAHUL SHOULD OCCUPY THE CHAIR. IF BJP WINS THEN ADVANI SHOULD.

Ashu said...

You are part right. The minister is saying the thing which we also think. But as minister his comments are not proper.

Ashu

election wala anon said...

http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-antulay-conundrum/


...another POV

kashif said...

Democracy survives in doubts, discussions, and questions. Media is supposed to play the role of a watch-dog.

People who are calling for investigations into terrorism incidents and encounter cases are true patriots.

We are not a fascist state that we can not even raise questions.

Anser Azim said...

I think Kashif has raised valied points. Here in USA the deep throat in the Nixon investigation passed away in deep sleep yesterday. President Richard M Nixon of the United States was ousted from power because two young INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISTS -- Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein -- working for the Washington Post under its chief editor Benjamin C Bradlee, had investigated (like detectives) the bugging of Watergate Building in 1972 that housed the headquarters of the (opposition) Democratic Party of the US. One of those investigative journalists, Bob Woodward, is still on the staff of the Washington Post. He is Associate Editor now. So please let the freedom of speech and free press prevail. Pl do not follow Mr Bushes
law" either you are with us or against us". Mr Antulay is a veteran politician and there must be something thats how he he dared to pass this statement. Having said this all I believe the guilty should be brought to justice. Remember more than 200 lives were lost including 45 Indian Muslims who died with their brotheren Hindus and Christian and were the victim of this massacre at the peak of hujj festival. We Indians want the truth and people and states behinds this tragedy should be exposed and brought to justice.

Z@ki-R said...

Well, surely Mr. Anthuley is not anti-India but we should not equate his remark as a member of the governtment, as that of some xyz. Did not he (unintentionally) give a chance to the Paki govt to get some pressure off? The conspiracy theory is also alive in my office as well, but the same topic from someone who is very much a part of the govt, should have been dealt with some pinch of diplomacy. There might be some element of truth in his doubt, I don't know, but should not he bring this in the group of ministers meetings instead of going public? If his voice is not heard in GOM meetings, then he should have resigned and make the allegations public. I feel, Mr Anthuley has done a foolish thing to make his doubt public...no wonder this gives some oxygen to our TRP starved media and the BJP!!

Anonymous said...

(from anonymous of post # 2)
I am amazed at the comment of poster Kashif equating criticism of Antulay to fascism.

Arundhati Roy insinuated a conspiracy, no one complained. her article was published in Outlook. Amresh Mishra claimed a conspiracy, no one took notice. Saeed Naqvi also hinted at a conspiracy to a pakistani channel, but nothing happened. Many Urdu newspapers have also expressed doubts, but nobody minded.

So why is Antulay criticised? BECAUSE HE IS A UNION CABINET MINISTER. Every word he speaks is presumed to be the word of the government, the will of the cabinet. How irresponsible can he be to undermine the case against pakistan made by the government of which he is a part? That too at a time like this.

He can air whatever views he has within the cabinet meeting, not outside. If he has a penchant for talking to the media then HE SHOULD BE SACKED and then he can speak all day long about conspiracies. But not as a union minster.

Faroha said...

Should someone be forbidden to speak his mind if he is a minister? India claims to be a democracy; is this what democracy is. I am a Pakistani and maybe I'll be bashed for speaking here. But I am not saying who is right;India or Pakistan? I am just saying that why is a minister slammed for speaking out his mind in LOk Sabha? Because Pakistan may take advantage of it? Because it is anti-state? Because he is undermining Pakistan's case? Does this not reveal an attitude where PAKISTAN has to be proved wrong at every cost? We may not have a history in democracy, but the leading news channel in pakistan ran a story on KASAB that many found self-incriminating, but no one gave threats to the channel and there wasnt an uproar. And I thought India's democracy was effective!

Anonymous said...

(From anon of post # 2)
@Faroha

Firstly there is no equivalence between the the official position of India and the denials coming from Pakistan. Most of the international community has accepted the fact that the attacks were planned in pakistan. The security council has banned pakistani organizations and individuals in the aftermath, and the nationality of Ajmal has been confirmed by pakistani media itself. Only the pakistani govt is in denial. In the coming days I expect even this bravado from pakistani govt to cease and accept the facts.

Now the second point -
Being a pakistani you may not be familiar with the notion of collective responsibility of the union cabinet. Antulay is a union minister and his casting doubt on the position of Indian govt at a time like this is highly irresponsible. His statements are all the more reprehensible as they are not based on even a SHRED OF EVIDENCE. The timeline of the encounter in which Hemant Karkare died has been confirmed by several eyewitnesses including one policeman who actually survived in the shootout at the police van. The surviving terrorist has also admitted his guilt. The bullets by which Karkare died were from the guns carried by the terrorists. Infact most of the colleagues of Hemant Karkare are furious at Antulays remarks which are just a cynical political plot to shore up his importance.

Antulay can step down and then mouth whatever conspiracy theory he wants. There is no dearth of conspiracy theorists in India and nor are they banned. In fact another member of parliament from JD(U) who is not a minister also asked for a inquiry in the death of Karkare but he was not condemned or harassed by anyone. But a minister has much more responsibility and if he is not up to it then he should be sacked immediately.

Rohit said...

Folks,

Raising doubts in a democracy is fine. And welcome.

But as others have pointed out, there is a difference between Arundhati Roy and A R Antulay. Antulay has the medium of government to raise his doubts; he chose not because he preferred playing to the gallery.

And that is the key problem. Bottomline: The state has to be given the benefit of doubt. I believe the state when it says Purohit and company may be involved in Malaegon. And I believe the state when it says the terrorists were Pakistanis. Haul the state over the coals when it is proven wrong but it can't be the default position.

aalochana said...

I do not agree with your defence of Antulay, but I do agree with your comments on the reaction to it. As a person at a post with considerable responsibility & power, I think he should have been more careful with his comments-- why should he raise a storm with incomplete information/analysis? That said, Antulay's comments don't make him anti-national, though they certainly show that he was irresponsible. Our media keeps showing its own irresponsibility, if not immaturity, by sensationalizing and distorting such incidents. What relevance has Pakistan with regards to whether an Indian leader is responsible or not?

Election wala anon... said...

btw karkare was investigating other terrorist activities as well....and he did get threats frm IM also....so if u have to derive a conspiracy theory...why nt look at tht angle also...may b terrorists DID target him...u never know....bt tht wont fetch antuley any political benefits...
@kasif...may b this all tragedy is staged...why dnt u question this also...after all we aint living in a facist society or whtever....
as per antuley....it might just have given some benefit to pak's conspiracy theories...aftr all his words become official...

Z@ki-R said...

If tommrow our pm is caught red-handed in taking bribe, would you expect people to

react same way as a trafic police caught taking bribe? i think, you would agree, the

answer is NO and should not be considered same, eventhough both are same in the eye of

the constitution.
To my pakistani brother, Faroha - i don't think, pakistan's common people is different

than us but it is established, pakistan is the breeding ground of biggest part of

terrorism today - and all in the name of islam.the people there also are the sufferers.

Even if the journalists who confirmed the citizenship of the caught terrorist did not

do investigations, still it would not have been difficult to prove their origin. please

don't mis-understand me...i m proud of the rich heritage of the both sibbling countries

but unfortunately situation in pakistan is not in control of the govt and everything is

going in fanatic's control which is not good for anyone of us.
I still think, AR Anthuley should not have spoken is mind to the press. He's a part of

the government... why he didn't use his influence of position to initiate a proof...or

he does not have any say in govt? if that is the case, why didn't he quite the govt at

the earliest? Such irresponsible ministers are liability to any govt. (dr. singh's govt

has many such pieces).

contrarianbroodings said...

"Abu Bashar is equally a terrorist as Waliullah as Pragya Bharti and as Lt Col Purohit"

why? where's the evidence?

all inquiries, investigations, and narco tests have yielded ZERO results.

yup, thats right. zero, nada, zilch!

on a side note why is this secular govt. not doing narco test on kasab? would that be too communal?

i agree with your point about rabble rousers like raj thackeray. but this is just a dirty game played by congress to divide fragment the hindu vote from the shiv sena/bjp.

in the next assembly elections, the people of maharashtra will kick congress and its cronies out into the arabian sea.

contrarianbroodings said...

"Let them speak. Silencing is not healthy in democracy."

is israel a democracy? is america a democracy?

this paki mole would have been summarily executed in these countries.

Anonymous said...

If someone would be relieved after Karkareji's martyrdom then it is the BJP RsS leaders who were involved in terrorism.

Faroha said...

@ anonymous

Well, I had specifically said in the beginning of the comment that I am not judging between India and Pakistan; I am just discussing the right to freedom of expression. I was right to fear bashing and got a sarcastic remark that since I was a Pakistani, I may not know about collective responsibility. I donot want to return your compliment but let this suffice, I stick to my viewpoint. The minister has every right to express his opinion; he is not in a court where he has to give proof of everything. In a Lok Sabha session, anyone can introduce a point of debate and democracy demands that a debate is conducted on it, instead of its causing an uproar. Also, if India can present the proof to UNSC then why not to Pakistan? And the matter of Jamat-ud Daawa was pending before UNSC since MY, 2008. Only CHina had delayed the matter for son long, citing a technical fault ( which in diplomatic terms is a way to delay an agenda). Only when China gave it a go-aheafd on DEc 4, was the matter discussed in UNSC. And China did it because Pakistan asked it not to delay the matter further, so as to release some pressure. Otherwise Jamaat-ud-Daawa is an organization which has been awarded by the UN itself for its relief work in the Kashmir earthquake, 2005. Recently, about 300 Hindus in Pakistan's Hyderabad ,carried out a rally in JuD's support because it provided them with food and education, regardless of their faith. And didnt the UNSC know that one Ashraf it was banning was already dead?I am not supporting any terrorist cause but just giving you a summary of all that Pakistanis are saying. We feel very strongly that India is using Pakistan as a scapegoat for its own intelligence failures and as a blind to hide the insurgencies raging in India. If any pakistanis are involved, IF, then they must be punished because such behavior is inexcusable, but the question is a big IF? and no one in Pakistan believes these so called confessions. Torture can make a man speak, truth or a lie, to save his own skin and the body of the recently handed over Pakistani man who had gone to India to see cricket match,speaks volumes of the efficiency of Indian torture mechanisms

Faroha said...

@ zakir

I am a Pakistani girl, not a man.

And yes, I do appreciate your polite manner of replying to my comment, but let me tell you something also. This impression of a terrible scenario in pakistan is just an eye wash. The only problem is in the Tribal areas and yes , a very serious problem there, but dumping Jihadis after using them in the Afghan war will lead to such behavior on their part. They are wrong of course and this is not islamic in anyway, but itis also the truth that more than the Pashtuns fighting there, there are Chechens and Uzbeks, afghans and then the Pashtuns fighting there. Of course we will fight back and will not let any strict ideology take us as hostage, but the majority of the people of pakistan are moderates. However, the world only views us as fanatics, and thats why, we have come so much under attack after the Mumbai blast, Kasab or no kasab

Anonymous said...

@Faroha (from anon of post # 2)
I dont know why you cannot understand a simple issue - A minster (AR Antulay) is outright irresponsible if he espouses a personal opinion at variance with the govt position on a matter of national importance. Once again, A CABINET MINISTER CANNOT CAST DOUBTS ON HIS OWN GOVERNMENTS POSITION. Also he did not raise the matter in the cabinet or even the parliament, but rather to the media - it was just a political drama. Moreover, Antulay has been roundly criticized by many muslim organizations and his own party - primarily because he holds a position of responsibility. He can resign or should be sacked and thereafter speak whatever comes to his mind.

Regarding pakistani involvement - Ajmal has confessed to the FBI about his nationality and LeTs involvement. FBI has traced the communication links used by terrorists to pakistan based LeT. US, UK and UN security council also believe pakistani militants are involved. Your own pakistani newspapers and TV channels have confirmed Ajmal is from pakistan. There was a conspiracy afloat in pakistani media that Ajmal was kidnapped by India from Nepal in 2006 - even this has been denied yesterday by the Nepal government.
Even Nawaz sharif has admitted that Ajmal is pakistani and pakistan needs to intorspect. I mean how long will the pakistani govt live in denial in the face of a mountain of evidence.

This is the same ostrich like attitude that pakistan adopted in kargil in 1999 when it claimed pakistan and pakistani soldiers were not involved. Pakistani generals and politicians themselves have since debunked this lie in great detail. So it is not that surprising that pakistani govt lives in denial about 26/11. Sooner or later it will accept the truth anyway just like it eventually did about Kargil.

Faroha said...

@ anonymous

First of all, Nawaz Sharif has not accepted any such thing. If you had heard the interview, you would have known it. He merely criticized the security services for denying access of the area to journalists as if KASAb was a citizen and thats what GEO reported. It was mis-quoted by Indian newspapers and PML-N has contradicted it.

Secondly, let there be tit for tat. Forget Kargil, it was a disaster. BUt if the Indian Govt gives Pakistan any evidence, which it has not done so far, Pakistan should also take to the UNSC proof of Indian involvement in the insurgencies in Balochistan and FAta, which it possesses. And ask the Indians why are there 12 consulates of India alonside Pakistan-Afghanistan border? and why is the grandson of Akbar Bugti, Talal, is photographed coming out of RAW offices, and why does Baitullah Mehsud blackmails pakistan Govt to bow to his demands otherwise he'll ask India to give him the money, and why are Indian made weapons continuously captured from FATA and what was an INdian under cover RAW woman agent doing in BAlochistan? Pakistan should not be so large-hearted and should take the matter to UNSC, even if it fears that America and Russia will veto. This is all part of a GREAt game and India and Pakistan are just two pawns playing against eachother

Amitabh said...

Bravo, Bravo.. You guys are genius. The way you turn the points towards print media are amazing. I am feeling guilty man!...:-)

I was joking. Let’s talk some serious things. First, Antulay is or was, ‘I don’t know’, not just a union minister he is also a Muslim and what he said upto some extent is the general perception of Indian Muslims. There is one news paper in Mumbai who has done a survey on Mumbai 26/11 terror attack and find more than 90% Muslims believe that Hemant Karkare was killed by some Hindu organization. We should not just take lines what have been said we need to read between the lines as well. You are supporting the above said opinion not you believe in him. You have something in your heart because he has arrested IM terrorist. You are actually pacifying yourself. If he wouldn’t has arrested the IM terrorist you wouldn’t be giving the damm whether is alive or not. I am feeling pity for you and now I am feeling guilty as well….

Kagaz ki kashti said...

Adnan Bhai, I appreciate the way you spoke your mind here, giving emphasis that the media should not blow things out of proportion on minister Antulay's remarks, whether asking questions in democracy is right or wrong...

But one thing is quite obvious that Mr H. Karkare was getting treats after his findings on Malegaon, is it not enough a reason for finding out the people/organisation behind the given treats earlier??
Why it should be taken as a causal approach on the part of the Government on treats to its own government servant?

shadkam77 said...

Media's (over)reaction is not surprising. Imagine the days before media got to hear of Pragya and Purohit (Thanks to Karkare Sir). Even to mention that malegaon (and hyd / ajmer) blasts "may" have been carried out by non-muslims, was to do an "Aa bail mujhe maar", a recipe to be termed anti national.
But though I m feeling bad for media's reaction, I don't harbour "ratti bhar" hamdardi for Antuley.

The astronomical amount of (flak / negative publicity) he is getting, I agree with Indescrib, he does not deserve. But trust me - this is what he wanted. This is why he uttered those remarks.
Consider this, despite being CM of MH, and a central minister, how many moslems knew him. In fact, I m convinced more knew Haji Yaquoub Qureshi than knew Antuley.

But this one (master)stroke secured his place in history.

And what he had to lose - a cabinet berth, which anyway is a mehamaan of just a few more months.

And Indes, request to please cover Mehmood Madani's interview with Prabhu Chawla on this blog - it was really good.

Anonymous said...

Whomsoever is baying for Antuley's blood (for he is a union minister):
Ask for his resignation, I support u. But stop at that, don't term him anti national / ISI agent.

Is Advani (leader of opposition and a perenially-waiting-prime-minister) a shishu in crade (pragya/torture episode)

Modi, who has more indian blood on his hands than perhaps any other person in post-47 india, u never call anti national.

Indifferent said...

Antulay said all that he had to say coz he wanted to please his muslim brothers but his plan backfired and his own party has now deserted him. A union minister is the representative of the people and if the Minority affairs' minister says something utterly crap like that it is bound to grab attention.

@Faroha- No it's not about wat that Minister said (we r a lot more tolerant to hear such nonsense) It was about the timing. He could have saved his wisdom till the elections

indscribe said...

Anon @ Yes this will serve as lesson hopefully that people should be given portfolios and positions on the basis of their capability than closeness to the family.

Kashif bhai, Anser Sb, Faroha @ thanks for your comments

Rohit, Aalochana @ Most of us agree about the 'irresponsibility' and probably also the 'timing'.

Amitabh bhai @ Such surveys aren't very reliable. The figures seems to high.

Contrarian Broodings @ I won't care much if the Congress govt is kicked into Arabian sea...let's see who comes to power...Rane Sahab, Thackeray Jrs, Munde ji or someother...

Kagaz ki Kashti @ Yahi to baat hai. These days anger is also channelised by electronic media against selected persons time to time. It's another ply for TRP.

Shadkam bhai @ Antulay's name we heard a lot in our childhood when he got into a scam. Then he was away from limelight for a longtime. Mahmood Madani's interview....I couldn't watch...heard that it was good. Wonder, if it is available on Aaj Tak site...

@ thanks z@ki-R, Indefferent, Election wala Anon and others for the discussion.

Anonymous said...

@Faroha (from anaon of post#2)
Nawaz Sharif was not misquoted, I have seen the video where he clearly asks why the parents of Ajmal are not allowed to meet media, why his village is cordoned off - which is a clear admission that Ajmal is pakistani. Anyway there is heaps and heaps of evidence, as I said just like kargil pakistan will eventually accept the truth. India didnt even have to share any evidence then.

Now as far as tit for tat - well firstly get your facts straight - India DOES NOT have 12 consulates in Afghanistan but 4 apart from the embassy in Kabul. You are regurgitating a blatant lie that is frequently reported in pakistani press with any crosscheck. The RAW involvement is completely exaggerated by the pakistani media.

Secondly, if pakistan has any evidence against RAW it is free to share it with UN. Pakistan can try to capture the insurgents like Mehsud and present them to the world. But it wont. Why? Because these individuals would blow the lid off pakistani involvement in the funding and sustenance of Taliban and AlQaeda. Simple fact is that pakistani establishment is so deeply mired in acts of omission and commission with regard to terrorism that even a scratch on the surface will expose their involvement.

Faroha said...

@ anon

Well, let's not turn it into an INdia vs Pakistan debate. I have family members fighting on the Pak-Afghan front and I know what I am talking about when I say there is Indian funding and involvement. Its not only the press, we have family who have seen it with their own eyes and told us.

Yes, the pakistani establishment had links with these jihadis after the Afghan war, but severed them in Musharraf era. That's why many people were angry with Musharraf, but that's the only good thing he did. And what do you think, on how many fronts can the Pakistan army fight? In Bajaur, we have a full conflict. Do you want to push all our forces in all 7 tribal agencies at once and leave our Indian border unmanned? The Pakistani and Indian establishments have always viewed eachother as principal threats and no amount of insurgencies is going to change that.

Anonymous said...

@Faroha (from anon of post#2)
Again denial. Pakistani intelligence has not completely severed links off from the Taliban. Infact ISI still encourages the Taliban insurgents who cross over to Afghanistan to fight NATO. Its a well known fact that the ISI used one of the Taliban militants Jalaluddin Haqqani to bomb the Indian embassy in Kabul, and did not even bother to cover its tracks. Both the US and India have confirmed this link but ofcourse Pakistan again denied everything.

But this time in Mumbai, the evidence is overwhelming and the captured Ajmal has spilled the beans to India and has been interrogated by FBI too. RAW will definitely extract its revenge (the Karachi riots were a small example), but what India wants is a permanent end to this problem. Already US is going to open an alternate Afghan supply line through Tajikistan and Russia within few weeks. Once US is free from that constraint, I believe it will be open season on Pakistan.

urdudaaN said...

On one hand people say that Mr.Antuley is a responsible figure, a union cabinet minister. If so, why are his comments not being taken seriously by asking him what he meant & doing accordingly?
Is a cabinet minister good just for iterating what the media or the notorious common man thinks?

Langoo said...

Karkare was an anti-national, so is Antuley. Who can be aggrieved for an anti-national? Only an antinational.

The media is behaving as if they never ever falter. They do it all the time. May be they think they have a right to call names as long as their offices are not at a risk from the targets like Antuley or an accused Indian Muslim. Dare they call names to any of the nationalists when they become overtly so? Will their offices be safe from the public ire which cannot be controlled by the helpless police?

Faroha said...

@ anon

I begin to think you enjoy the fact that the Karachi riots were caused by RAW. and not only that, but the recent Ghakkar Plaza fire in rawalpindi that caused billion of rupees loss to Pakistan.
Interpol chief has also said today that India has not provided any evidence and the UN has praised Pakistan's efforts yesterday. As far as the US is concerned, they can never come out of their dependence on pakistan, because of the nature of the Pak-Afghan border, the Torkham route being the shortest supply route even if the Iran route is opened (which Iran never will agree to, as it considers the US the Great Satan) and because the CIA cannot afford severing links with the ISI. You see, whatever the GOvernment may think, the establishment and the people know well that America has never been our friend but China has been.

Anyways, this is a fruitless discussion. So you stick to your opinion and let me have mine.We can never convince eachother

Ankuresh said...

why is it always that muslims(I am not saying all but majority does no matter how much u deny) feel happy when digvijay and antulay or other congressis make false accusations and propaganda to defame majority.

http://ankuresh.blogspot.com/2011/01/things-that-we-again-didnt-do-in-2010.html

indscribe said...

Dear Ankuresh Sahab. I have visited your blog and seen your posts.

Do you think Muslims want Kasab to be alive? You are sadly mistaken. People in this country have been on death rows for decades.

Name one Muslim leader who ha ever advocated violence in India. The problem is that when ULFA chief is released from jail, no one pays attention.

Do you know how many times Hindi-speakers are separated from rest and killed?

No body bothers when an Indian is not allowed to enter Nagaland without permit. But when it comes to Kashmir, BJP-brainwashed guys see 'Muslim angle' and feel it is appeasement.

I feel you are quite intellegent. Perhaps, as you grow up you will see things in better perspective.

Just like Congress is not a party of angels, BJP is also playing is own politics of Hindu victimisation.