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Friday, January 23, 2009

BJP's failure to become national party despite Congress' weakness and disenchantment of Muslims

Despite the hoopla and the advertising blitz projecting Lal Krishna Advani as the Prime Ministerial candidate, it seems difficult that the BJP will be able to form a government at the Centre on its own.

It's current tally in the parliament is a mere 138 and even if it manages to reach it's zenith (which was 182 when Atal Bihari Vajpayee was active and campaigned extensively) it will have to search for coalition partners to somehow reach the magic figure of 272. Isn't that odd for a party that promises an alternative to the old and weary Congress?

The reasons are many. But let's see how the BJP has failed to get Muslim vote:

1. After Babri Masjid demolition, Muslims were angry with the BJP but they were not happy with Congress either. The wounds took time to heal and by late-90s there was a small minority of Muslims that had begun voting for BJP in some constituencies.

2. Then occurred the Gujarat carnage. Atal Behari Vajpayee as Prime Minister did ask Narendra Modi to perform his 'Raj Dharma', but that was an eyewash and aimed at keeping his image of a more inclusive and comparatively secular politician intact.

3. Six years down the line, Muslims haven't forgotten Gujarat, but they also know that innumerable riots occurred in India during Congress regimes. The Babri Masjid-Ram Janmabhoomi dispute occurred due to some Congress leaders who had reignited the controversy with the the shilanyas in 1986 and that the social condition of Muslims reached its nadir during 40 years of Congress rule at the Centre and states.

How BJP could have got Muslim votes:

Now, BJP could have still managed to get some Muslim vote. Had it simply said that:

We will not provide any reservation or any preferential treatment to Muslims but will ensure that like rest of the citizens, their lives and property would be safeguarded, riots will be checked effectively and we'll open schools, dispensaries and hospitals in Muslim concentrated areas.

Is this too much an expectation from a national party? This is something basic any responsible political party should say. But the BJP doesn't make even such a promise. What holds it back: Kyaa niyat kharab hai?

BJP claims to be the national alternative to Congress but it doesn't address nearly 175 million Muslims and Christians. It doesn't even treat them properly. At the ground level, its cadre is the same as that of VHP, Bajrang Dal and RSS. And in riots, it allows its workers to run amok when it is running a state government.

Unlike other parties the BJP has to be content with mostly non-minority votes in states other than Punjab. So, effectively it has to get more votes from lesser number of electorates. While a candidate belonging to any other party including Congress can expect votes from all sections, the BJP candidate stars with a disadvantage.

If in a multi-cornered contest, a candidate generally wins if he secures over 30% votes (obviously out of 100), but the BJP candidate has to get his 30% from less than 85% (minus Muslims).

If one looks at the chart showing BJP's vote percent, it's quite clear that it hovers around 22%. If it snatches just a section of Muslims (13.4% of India's population) from Congress, then it can easily beat the Congress.

But many Muslim leaders who joined the BJP later felt that the party was just not interested in the welfare of the community. Its middle-level leaders are often from such background that when in states they head departments like Waqf Board, Urdu Academy, Madarsa Board or Haj Committee, they further damage these institutions by cutting grants and trying to impede their functioning.

This negative thinking forces Muslims to either go to Samajwadi Party, RJD, Leftist (Communist Parties) and even JD (U) in states where the third front exists or back to Congress due to the TINA factor (There Is No Alternative). Thus BJP refuses to become an alternative to Congress. Though LK Advani's website now has an appeal for Urdu-speakers (Muslims)also. The Urdu content has been added recently.

Aakar Patel on How Indian People's Party (BJP) treats Muslims:

Senior journalist Aakar Patel has summed it up quite well. He writes that the party that claims to be Indian People's Party governs six states with a population of 190 million (19 crore) that has tens of millions of Muslims but neither it has a Muslim minister (or MLA) in Gujarat, nor in Madhya Pradesh. In Himachal Pradesh, Chhattisgarh and Uttarkhand also it has no Muslim minister in the cabinet. In Karnataka there is one Muslim minister to manage the Waqf and Minority affairs.

Of its 38 national office holders, just one (Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi) is a Muslim and of the 26 national general secretaries none is a Muslim. Patel further writes that the BJP is a national party, but its constituency is Hindu. The BJP's problem is that the majority of Hindus actually don't vote for the BJP. Only one in four Indian voters prefers it, and this has not changed in the last 20 years. Link

Can BJP fill the void:

There is a void in Indian politics. People who are fed up with Congress and want to teach it a lesson, don't know what to do. BJP could have filled the space. It talks about appeasement all the time, but when it comes to power, it appeases the right-wing Hindutva constituency and forgets that inclusivity is essential to run a nation.

It can start gettting Muslim votes just by taking the community in confidence and promising them that there will be no injustice or step-motherly treatment. But it stops far short of that. And that's the tragedy of our national politics that the only national alternative to Congress is afraid to promise protection and respect to a section of its citizens.

The general elections are just a few months away and we will know whether Advani manages to get to the post of Prime Minister or leaves the field for the next generation of BJP.

Read an earliest post on this blog:
When burqa gets saffron band: Bharatiya Janata Party and Muslims


manas shaikh said...

I don't think we should consider BJP just to teach Congress a lesson. BJP is a fascist party notwithstanding whether it comes in a sheep's skin.

We should think about other alternatives, if we want to punish congress. Third front, Muslim political party etc.

kashif said...

BJP is a fascist party and not only Muslims they are bad for India too. Majority of Indians know this and that is the reason BJP is limited to urban India and get votes from the upper caste Hindus who seek the power to keep others in control.

Langoo said...

Even if BJP successfully wooes Muslim voters as you have rightly wished in this writing of yours, I will be sorry for my entire life that such fascist, riot-mongers & anti-social elements will go unpanished for their educated misdeeds & hate crimes. I will always feel that all the talks of justice in religions, societies & democracies is just a farce. It will be a sad realization.
The only thing I won't be sorry for will be that Muslim Indians will again be able to live at least like humans.

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Manas Shaikh said...

"BJP is a fascist party and not only Muslims they are bad for India too."


!!! said...

Your desire that BJP treat Muslims like any other Indian - and no special treatment
"We will not provide any reservation or any preferential treatment to Muslims but will ensure that like rest of the citizens, ..."...

is incidentally something Narendra Modi keeping doing/saying all the time. So you must be a fan of Narendra Modi...who has

""I do nothing for Muslims or for Hindus," he told a daily this month. "Whatever I do, I do for 50 million Gujaratis.""
Refer --- http://www.anindianmuslim.com/2009/01/bjps-failure-to-become-national-party.html

!!! said...

Your desire that BJP treat Muslims like any other Indian - and no special treatment
"We will not provide any reservation or any preferential treatment to Muslims but will ensure that like rest of the citizens, ..."...

is incidentally something Narendra Modi keeps doing/saying all the time. So you must be a fan of Narendra Modi...who has

""I do nothing for Muslims or for Hindus," he told a daily this month. "Whatever I do, I do for 50 million Gujaratis.""
Refer --- http://www.anindianmuslim.com/2009/01/bjps-failure-to-become-national-party.html

Bimlesh said...

BJP has 138 seats ..did you check how many seats COngress had in the 2004 polls?Just 145..7 more than the BJP..if only the BJP wasnt overconfident in last elections, Congress raj in this nation could have been over.

As for the upcoming Lok Sabha elections, despite the tall claims by UPA and Congress I belive UPA may not return back to Power. Reason being
1. Regional parties like TDP,AIADMK,Shiv Sena, JDU,AGP,TrinaMool Congress and BSP would be doing better than 2004. Barring Trinamool, all other parties would never go for an alliance with Congress.
2. In states like TN,Bihar, Jharkhand, AP,Maharashtra,Assam with around 190 seats and where the UPA won 130 plus seats last time, this time the UPA tally will go down to less than 75 with TDP,AIADMK,JDU, AGP and SHiv Sena damaging the UPA heavily
3.BJP will be able to hold onto its strngholds in Gujrat, MP, Chattisgarh, Punjab,Orissa,Karnataka , would do better in Bihar,Jharkhand, UP (due to an alliance with RLD),HP, Uttarakhand, Delhi and its performance will go down in only Rajasthan.

SO look at the above figures , its the BJP and its allies and those parties opposed to COngress which are likely to do better in the 2009 elections. And god forbid if Congress was to project Rahul Gandhi as the PM candidate (now that manmohan Singh has fallen ill and is likely to take a lot of time to recover), the congress tally may go down even further ( as evidenced in all the places where he has campaigned hard, except for his own pocketburroughs of Amethi and Rai bareily).

These are my personal readings of the current political situation and I may be completely wrong . Lets wait and watch .

Anser Azim said...

I have yet to see the good part of BJP or the jansangh. The day they will trash the ideals of Mr Sarvarkar BJP will have my vote. I read some time back on this forum from a Gujrati brother who admitted that more than 70% Gujrati's hate Muslims. Mr Modi has blood on his hands of some 5000 innocent muslim minority constituents under his leadership. He belongs to prison not to the chair/throne of chief minister or would be PM of India. In my opinion that will be the darkest day of Indian democracy, though it is true that he has been elected to power twice my the people of Gujrat. But history tells us that Hitler and Mussolini did have the power of their people. But their ideals were defeated. I believe that one day Mr Modi will meet the same fate. some of his famous quotes: mulahiza ho:
This is out of his venomous tongue but hardly tells about the evil that harbors his heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"What should we do? Run relief camps for them? Do we want to open baby-producing centers? Hum paanch, humaare pachhees. [We five, our 25]"

"We brought Narmada waters during Shravan, but the Congress would have wanted it in Ramzan."

"Is James Michael Lyngdoh from Italy? Or is he helping the Congress President Sonia Gandhi because he is also a Christian?".

"With the entire population of Gujarat very angry at what happened in Godhra much worse was expected".
anser azim

Anonymous said...


Keep blaming Modi for what happened in Gujrat but why dont you guys ever talk of numerous riots in Ahmedabad that happened from 1948 to 1995 in which more than 5000 hindus were butchered by muslim criminals..and with a congress govt in power none of the culprits were ever caught..Juhapura in Ahmedabad was the den of criminals where kidnapped hindu girls were kept for months and forced to change religion and marry their kidnappers with the state police machinery under strict congress govt orders not to act at all..Why does that never gets any mention in any press stories?

In such situations do you expect a normal gujrati to have trust on people whom he has seen killing his neighbours? The mistrust has always been deep between the two communities in Gujrat and the series of riots right from the days of partition have only exacerbated this deep divide

Go and read about Godhara's history and also the number of riots that the muslim majority of that area instigated against the minority hindus forcing them to leave their property and settle somewhere else in AHmedabad.Also read about how the demographic profile of Godhara has changed since 1947..earlier it had a 25% Muslim population,. now there are almsot 75% muslim residents. Did you hear any secular stalwart like raise a noise against tht?

And talking of Gujrat riots dont think that hindus were killing muslims there and muslims were innocent victims..obviously the riots were started by hindus but the proportion of those killed included almost 400 hindus as well. It was an unfortunate hindu muslim riot that this nation has witnessed right from the days of partition with muslims killing hindus in the muslim dominant areas and hindus doing the same in the areas they dominate. Thats quite unfortunate but very true as well. This legacy of divide and rule continues even today with today's politicians thriving by keeping the two communities against each other .

I hope my post is published here.

!!! said...

Congress has blood of thousands of Sikhs and Kashmiri' Pandits on their hands...So who do you choose then?

Amazing that James Lyngdoh had no issues having elections in Kashmir without half-million Kashmiri Hindus...

Anonymous said...

it's sad but none the less it's True. We play the politics of Victimization. It was basically the Pakistanis who drove out the Kashmiri Hindus while the locals just joined hands. Also what it true is People like Lone and Mirwaiz talking about Separate state of Kashmir based on identity but fail to acknowledge the fact that Kashmiriyat found it's roots in the Hearts of These Pandits. Similarly while Godhra riots were evil and unfortunate, I would even say could have been avoided it is true that the Normal Hindus were not party to the crime. They are not the rabid Dogs you are making them out to be. Yes there is this deep divide and Hatred but see yourself as the victimized and persecuted lot at each and every instant doesn't help the situation either. Hinduism was never intolerant would never be. I do not want to dwell on silly ideological wars but Hinduism never classified the world as being made up of believers and non Believers. So who is intolerant is for all to see.

Yes we are wrong and we do need to introspect but so do you. Taali ek haath se nahi bajti dost. Sulah bhi ek taraf se nahi hoti hai. The more we bring up this issue of Godhra the more we would be getting the Masses involved in Tu Tu mei mei and getting the atmosphere Polarized. Justice will take it's course. Agar yahaan nahi to upar waale ke ghar hi sahi. Evil shall not Triumph. But it will stay and we could start off by not Bringing up issues where they are not needed.

The Author was Talking about BJP and you found a way to Godhra. I ask you had Godhra not been there then would the BJP be acceptable to you? After all the development was better compared to what congress did. Are Bhaiyo baat ko samjjho. BJP ke raaj mei aap andar se satark rahoge kyunki aapko uspe vishwaas nahi hai. Congress to aapka dost banke dhoka deti hai. The Minority will never be satisfied and while the have ample grievances which I know haven't been addressed till date and truth be said will never will the only way out is to let go off it.

I know it sounds rubbish but Forgiveness is the only plausible way out.

Anser Azim said...

Anon/!! I hope you all know the forces that have been behind the riots in pre-partition and post partition India. The forces that killed innocent Christians around the country. The forces that set ablaze the Samjhauta express. The forces that planted bombs around the country recently. Congress leaders have never been open and never rode a Rath yatra from Somnath to Ayodhya.They wanted merely votes from muslims hindus and sikhs alike. Many of us are like them hardly care what happens to our neighbor whether Hindu or Muslim. Sabko apni apni roti se matlab hai kisi ka gher jale ya kisi ka rape ho who cares. But never a party to killings and rape. Its true that they were spectators for many riots including 1984 riots. Pl do not mix Kashmir/Article 370/Uniform civil code/ Kargil etc as they are not related to the most 160 million muslims have other things to discuss with BJP than these issues.
The truth is that the manifesto of BJP is woven around hate.
Gujrat has been the hub of leaders like Mahatma Gandhi, ancestors of MA Jinnah, Patel,Ghulam Haider Momin, Morarji Desi,etc and now Modi. It has been too political and too powerful. It is a long discussion. The kind of nationalism, Hinduism, and to a lesser extent democracy that BJP and its allies propagate are detrimental to a united India. Pl do read what the goons of BJP have done in Manglore today. They are beating women in the name of principles that they themselves do not follow and believe in....

indscribe said...

Manas, Kashif bhai:

When I think of the years after independence, especially in UP, where Congress leaders had played a role worse than today's BJP, or that of riots across India and carnages like Bhagalpur, Nellie, Muradabad, Hashimpura-Maliana etc etc...

In those days there was no TV, let alone 24x7 channels. The Ahmedabad riot of 1969 was much more horrific than the 2005 carnage. The difference is that everybody could see it.

In those days, at OIC conference, I think it was held at Rabat, and then the 'Horrors of Ahmedabad documentary movie' was shown.

The Congress govt's role in UP for 40 years and that of govts in Maharashtra like Sudhakar Rao Naik's regime, were equally bad.

But I see one difference. At least, in Congress there are some leaders who are sympathetic to Muslims, in almost every state.

But in BJP I find none. It's so strange and so unbecoming a party that claims to be a national party and wants to occupy the space held by Congress.

At ground level, thousands of Muslims are now workers of BJP, if not lakhs, but they are still in interesting in solving any basic problems of Muslims.

@ Bimlesh bhai: Yes, the regional parties will play an important role. Another important thing to watch is whether the Left will manage to secure 40-50 seats and if goes down badly, what will be the complexion of the Parliament.

Khichdi hi pakegi...I feel. All opportunists will come together and form some common agenda and run the government. Let's see!

Anser Azim Sb: Really painful. You have done well to remind us of Modi's comments in the past.

This is true that until they really introspect and be inclusive, they can't rule the nation on their own.

The actions of loose groups that have a sort of tacit BJP backing like Sri Ram Sena, who beat up young girls at a Mangalore pub, recently show that the BJP has serious problems with its ideology.

This won't make them popular. They have to rein in such hoodlums who are in one way or the other connected to the BJP or the extended Sangh Parivar.

!!!, Langoo ji, Anon thanks for participating in the discussion.

!!! said...

@Anser. When I talk of sikh riots - I meant the participation of Congress - not their silence. Seems like you are ignorant enough to believe that some aliens came and killed Sikhs in 1984 - and the Congress just let them. And when I talk of the blood of Kashmiri Pandits - I dont give a damn abt art370/accession/UniformCivilCOde etc - but the role Rajiv Gandhi and his party played in ensuring the ethnic cleansing of the hindu minority from the valley of Kashmir...and giving the Jihadis a freehand in initial years of terrorism there... leading to a total annihilation of hindu's from Kashmir.

Its easy for anyone to look at anything from behind their coloured glasses...Every coin has two sides... The parties and people you think and call as secular - just because they choose to suck up to a tune of vote bank politics to ensure their seats are secured; are the very terrorists of hatred for someone else - who is being trashed by their one-sided view of things.

And talking of Mangalore today... I think pple are forgetting the fatwa's and diktats issued by religious police of the maulvi's etc.

-A Soul in Exile.

!!! said...

btw - i am not supporting or commending the acts of the goons in Mangalore... they need to be hanged by their toe-nails.

Anser Azim said...

@!!!: No I am aware of the atorocities committed on Sikhs after Mrs Indira Gandhi's assasination. I know and remember how sardarjis were dragged out of trains and burnt and killed. Tytler, sajjan Kumar were implicated but still justice awaits them. But I am not sure that it was done by congress party members alone. At the time of riots the only party that is prepared to indulge in riots was/is the RSS and all those bajrangis.
Kashmir's issue is different and the people of the valley have done these injustices and atrocities in the presenece of 500,000 Indian soldiers. And they have also paid a heavy price in the name of their struggle and to the best of my knowledge some 50,000 people have lost their lives since 1989. I do not think Rajiv was a party to ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri's Pandits as he was assasinated in 1991 or so. Hindu minorities have moved out of the valley under congress/janata party. and BJP goverments and I deplore that in the strongest terms. But unfortunately that is our Waziristan since partition and will remain a prick in the 21st century.

Amitabh said...


Hindus didn't start the Gujarat riots. They ended it. It was started when secular, innocent and peace loving Muslims burnt Hindus including children alive in the train.

!!! said...

@Anser Azim:

Sajjan Kumar/Bhagar/Tytler -- all congress leaders were leader the massacre of Sikhs - but you still want to blame the RSS for the killings. Looks like you are a Congress party card holder or you have severe myopia. Wonder why saffron parties are the only one's Sikhs support openly. Your attitude to blame every thing on RSS needs to change. Pakdo pakdo RSS ko pakdo is a version of the wolf-lamb attitude you need to get out of soon... Its not different from the 'blame it all on Iraq' attitude of US - you are complaining of in your blogs.

And please get your maths and history straight... The ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus' happened prior to Indian forces arriving...which Congress delayed tactfully to get their friend DiscoFarooq extricated. And this whole lame argument of 50,000 kashmiri muslims dying - is like "Oh we didnt know there will be bullets coming back at us when we went to POK for arms training and came blazing with AK47/kalashnikovs and loaded with grenades. No one told us that army will fire back at us if we threw bombs at them. Why the hell is army retaliating with firing. They are supposed to die silently when we attack"...

Anonymous said...

RSS and the BJP protected the Sikhs during the Delhi riots. This is a fact acknowledged by many Sikh leaders including Khushwant Singh. This is what he wrote - "It was the Congress leaders who instigated mobs in 1984 and got more than 3000 people killed. I must give due credit to RSS and the BJP for showing courage and protecting helpless Sikhs during those difficult days. BJP party leader Atal Bihari Vajpayee himself intervened at a couple of places to help poor taxi drivers."

Have you ever heard of Congress protecting anyone during riots?

pseudo secular said...

Hindus ended it, by killing 5K humans for 58 - cause they had power.
If/when moslems have power, u'll justify them killing 5L humans (or whatever, do ur maths), right.

ur thinking (and that of ppl like u) doesn't deserve to be called human.
If 5K humans were killed in pre-modi riots - in ur eyes, justice was killing 5K muslim humans (or is it less, cause what i know of u ppl, u wont be satisfied till even one muslim is alive in these lands), lots of rapings added.

Look anywhere u can, none of the muslims / psudo secularists have ever demanded / wished for such kind of "justice".
All they have ever tried / argued for, is deliverance of justice as per laws of India, as per constitution of India.

So see for urself, out of the two groups, who is human / inhuman, and who stands for the constitution and who against it (who is a traitor and who is not).

pseudo secular said...

These right wingies are as inhuman as the talibans [read their comments wrt mangalore incident http://in.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/27mangalore-incident-an-act-of-hooliganism-bjp.htm].

The only difference between talibs and them is: Talibs are anparh ganvaar jahil guys, who were moulded into the inhumans they are by the West in order to use them against the Soviets, while these guys are (pseudo)educated, english speaking, internet accessing, US/UK visiting (or settled) (pseudo)elites, of the nation of Gandhi and Tagore.

Somebody talked about "Tumor" a couple of days back.

Anser Azim said...

From the very pre-partion day till today the concept of militant Hinduism and ideology of hate has been propagated by the the cadets of RSS and its more militant sister organizations. Obvious from some posts even in 21st century. Godse was not a INC guy and so is Modi and Thakres.

Congress could never stand up to crush them for the sake of votes. Remember the Jan Sangh got two seats in the seventies and the rest of the votes went to congress. It is my perception that during riots it has always been the militant RSS cadres who took part in killings, rapes, lootings etc. I do not buy even KS argument that in the 1984 riots the BJP was not that communal as they are today and helped Sikhs. Killers have no religion and these attributes belong to the people who killed the Father of the nation and innocent minorities since the dawn of 19th century till today .
@!!! Request you not to be personal.

Anonymous said...

It is a well known fact that no one could make a100%correct prediction about the future human situation!
Majority makes predictions on the basis of past events, present
developments and future trends only.However, at the eleventh hour some unexpected turn will make all forecasts a bunkum!
If we were to review the past LS polls results,we will know that out of 56 yearssince 1952,Congress has ruled for 43 years and non-Congress govts.13 years(out of which BJP combination rued for six years).
Ever since its defeat in 2004, BJP has been indulging in many stirs which invariably misfired.Its much adoed "trust Vote" litmus test also proved a failure.It thought of keep the issues of inflation,terrorism
and good governance as main point in its electioneering.Their clumsy dealing with 26/11 and fall of inflation has left it with just "good governance".But its past record precludes it from stressing it too much.Above all the holding out of an Octagenarian Hindutva hardliner as its PM candidate has handicapped it. Further,the general public has come to hate the frequent communal clashes let loose by sangh parivar and the c"moral policing."Hence, public confidence in Grand Old Party is fast picking up.To add to it many constituents of NDA have crossed across the floor.And many stalwarts of BJP are opposed to advani's candiature!

Anonymous said...

@pseudo secular
you say "If/when moslems have power, u'll justify them killing 5L humans (or whatever, do ur maths), right."

Oh man Muslims had their chance and they did kill many more than 5lakh Hindus. By some estimates around 80 million hindus were slaughtered by muslims. Thousands of temples were looted and destroyed. Nalanda and Vikramshila were destroyed.
Read the gleeful accounts of the slaughter of Hindus given by the Muslim historians themselves who recorded the "glorious" deeds of Ghazini, Ghori, Abdali etc.

And by the way the number of Muslims who died in the Gujarat riots is around 1000, and 200 Hindus too died in police firing.

Anonymous said...

@pseudo secular
And where does the constitution of India vanish when Hindus are driven out of Kashmir?
Where does the constitution vanish whenever uniform civil code is raised? UCC is part of our directive principles.
Where does the constitution vanish when a supreme court order giving alimony to muslim woman is not implemented?
Where does the constitution of India vanish when hundreds of thousands of illegal bangladeshis are allowed and no action is taken just to please a vote bank? Why is the IMDT act not amended even when the Supreme court is against it?

indscribe said...


It's very easy to state huge figures of killings. You could well have said 50 lakh or 5 crore.

Kings were interested in their own rule and extend their authority. There was a class--rulers and the other class--subjects. Nothing Hindu or Muslim.

The Hindus of past were not so coward that they could be killed or vanished at will by any force.

Muslim kings had predominant Hindu armies. And invaders like Timur and Nadir Shah mostly killed Muslims.

Your figure turns pale if you consider how many Muslims were killed by Nadir Shah in India alone.

You talk about constitution and all things that are planted by RSS in young minds.

That's why you guys forget how 1.5 lakh Indians lost lives in the 1857struggle, the first war of independence, and there were almost equal number of Hindus and Muslims in that.

It is disrespect to the martyrdom of Tantya Tope and Bahadur Shah Zafar and to Ram Prasad Bismil and Ashfaqullah when you divide Indian history and Indian people on the basis of your religions hatred.

As far as your other problems is concerned, you would serve India and Hinduism better by talking about all injustices....irrespective of religion.

In Kashmir, we didn't drive Pundits out. Our army is there and one hopes that they will return some day. You should also think of Kashmiri Muslims who die of bullets every now and then.

Your blood boils to see Bangladeshis. You see my posts on Bangla Vs Nepali migrant. Still, I'd expect you to talk to Muslims and befriend us rather than making charges that only take us apart and drive a wedge among us.

That will solve many problems of Hindustan.

Anonymous said...

Nepalis are allowed into India legally. Indians and Nepalis do not require visas or passports to travel into each others country. Bangladeshis are illegally coming into India. I hope you understand the difference between legal and illegal.

Illegal Bangladeshis have been causing terrorism in the north east. Bangladesh has several anti India jehadi groups functioning on its soil. Lashkar cells are present in Bangladesh. Why should India allow illegal Bangladeshis?

!!! said...

"In Kashmir, we didn't drive Pundits out. Our army is there and one hopes that they will return some day. You should also think of Kashmiri Muslims who die of bullets every now and then."

Adnan - your comment smells of more divisiveness here. What is the reference to Indian army about...? Do you know the chronology of events in the valley...at all?

And what is this repeated plea about the Kashmiri Muslim dying there...
What do you expect to happen if the Jihadi terrorists - whom the local people give shelter and support to - lob bombs on streets of Srinagar? They will explode and kill the people around them... What do you expect to happen when the Kashmiri terrorists attack government sites and engage in shootouts - people will die in cross-fire.
Now one could easily extend your arguement to say - "PoorKasab... see 10 of his friends also died. So whats the big deal about Karkare or SandeepUnnikrishnan dying"...

People in Kashmir have willfully chosen this life when they opened their arms and homes to to terror world, sent their kids to POK terror camps instead of schools, came back with AK47s and bombs - were they to be garlanded instead, when they chanted slogans of Nizam-e-mustafa and fanaticism believing the promised land of Pakistan was just a few bullets away...

Not that the stupid govts and media of India didn't garland those who killed and maimed thousands. Otherwise you would have seen Yasin Malik/Bitta Karate and tons of those terrorists living a life of luxury at tax payers money today. Yeah... so probably your expectation that when a terrorist fires in Kashmir, police/army should retaliate with flowers isn't all that outlandish in present day India. Kuch bhi ho sakta hai yahan...

Kagaz ki kashti said...

I agree with Kashif & few others.
BJP is a fascist party. It can never be an alternative just to teach Congress a lesson.
This is a election for lok sabha, & not assembly election.... to run the nation and not just UP alone. In UP, BSP & SP are much better choice than BJP...
We need politician like PM Manmohan Singh, Chitambarram, Pranab Mukherjee etc. to run our nation were we can feel proud of them and not Advani or Modi were we are ashammed to have them...

Amitabh said...

@ indscribe


How many muslims were killed in India by Nadir Shah alone????

indscribe said...

!!!--I think I have written simple enough. The issue is terrorism and the Army is there in Kashmir, fighting it.

What can we do? It was in response to the Anon's blaming Indian Muslims of all ills in the country.

Anon--It's easy to blame the poor who leave their land for employment and bread. Don't mock at them for their poverty.

As long as millions of Hindu Bangladeshis migrated through out the 70s and early 80s, there was no hue and cry.

These tens of thousands of Bangladeshis who come to India are ordinary humans.

If it is a Nepali, it doesn't mean he is a Maoist or if he is a Bangladeshi, he is branded terrorist.

I don't support Bangladeshi immigration, I just say that branding them all as TERRORISTS, just because they are Muslims, is in a bad taste and extremely insensitive.

If even 1% of them would be terrorist, it would have been impossible for us to live peacefully.

As far as terrorists are concerned, they can come to India anyhow as they have their masters who pave the way for them.

I would like to know how many of these following groups are Muslim or have Bangladeshi connection. These are the groups active in just Assam, Manipur, Meghalaya, Nagaland and Tripura:

(Unless of course you belong to RSS propaganda cell and want to brand a community or a region as 'terrorist producing' because of their religion)

Terrorist/Insurgent Groups

* National Democratic Front of Bodoland (NDFB)

* United Liberation Front of Asom (ULFA)
* United Liberation Front of Barak Valley (ULFBV)

* Adivasi Cobra Force (ACF)

* Dima Halim Daogah (DHD)

* Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)

* Kamtapur Liberation Organisation (KLO)

* United People's Democratic Solidarity (UPDS)

* Black Widow

* All Adivasi National Liberation Army
* Karbi Longri North Cachar Hills Liberation Front (KLNLF)
* Adivasi Security Force (ASF)
* All Assam Adivasi Suraksha Samiti (AAASS)
* Barak Valley Youth Liberation Front (BVYLF)
* Bodo Liberation Tigers (BLT)
* Gorkha Tiger Force (GTF)
Protest of India (IURPI)
* Karbi National Volunteers (KNV)
* Karbi People's Front (KPF)
* Koch-Rajbongshi Liberation Organisation (KRLO)
* People's United Liberation Front (PULF)
* Rabha National Security Force (RNSF)
* Tiwa National Revolutionary Force (TNRF)
* United Liberation Front of Barak Valley United Liberation Militia of Assam (ULMA)

* Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP)

* Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL)

* Manipur People's Liberation Front (MPLF)

* People's Liberation Army (PLA)

* People's Revolutionary Party of Kangleipak (PREPAK)

* United National Liberation Front (UNLF)

Active Terrorist/Insurgent Groups

* Hmar People's Convention- Democracy (HPC-D)

* Kuki Liberation Army (KLA)

* Kuki National Army (KNA)

* Kuki National Front (KNF)

* Kuki Revolutionary Army (KRA)

* National Socialist Council of Nagaland -- Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)

* People's United Liberation Front (PULF)

* United Kuki Liberation Front (UKLF)

* Zomi Revolutionary Army (ZRA)

* Chin Kuki Revolutionary Front (CKRF)
* Hmar People's Convention (HPC)
* Hmar Revolutionary Front (HRF)
* Indigenous People's Revolutionary Alliance (IRPA)
* Iripak Kanba Lup (IKL)
* Kangleipak Kanba Kanglup (KKK)
* Kangleipak Liberation Organisation (KLO)
* Kom Rem People's Convention (KRPC)
* Kuki Defence Force (KDF)
* Kuki Independent Army (KIA)
* Kuki International Force (KIF)
* Kuki Liberation Front (KLF)
* Kuki National Organisation (KNO)
* Kuki National Volunteers (KNV)
* Kuki Revolutionary Front (KRF)
* Kuki Security Force (KSF)
* Manipur Liberation Tiger Army (MLTA)
* People's Republican Army
* Achik National Volunteer Council (ANVC)
* Hynniewtrep National Liberation Council (HNLC)
* People’s Liberation Front of Meghalaya (PLF-M)
* Liberation of Achik Elite Force

* Hajong United Liberation Army (HULA)
*Bru national front
*Hmar convention
* National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Isak-Muivah (NSCN-IM)
* National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Khaplang (NSCN-K)
* National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Unification (NSCN-U)
* Naga National Council (Adino) – NNC (Adino)
1. All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF)
2. National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT)

Active Terrorist/ Insurgent Groups

1. Borok National Council of Tripura (BNCT)

1. All Tripura Bengali Regiment (ATBR)
2. All Tripura Bharat Suraksha Force (ATBSF)
3. All Tripura Liberation Organisation (ATLO)
4. All Tripura National Force (ATNF)
5. All Tripura Volunteer Force (ATVF)
6. Bangla Mukti Sena (BMS) National Militia of Tripura (NMT)
7. Socialist Democratic Front of Tripura (SDFT)
8. Tripura Armed Tribal Commando Force (TATCF)
9. Tiger Commando Force (TCF) Tripura Defence Force (TDF)
10. Tripura Liberation Force (TLF)
11. Tripura Liberation Organisation Front (TLOF)
12. Tripura Mukti Police (TMP)
13. Tripura National Army (TNA)
14. Tripura National Democratic Tribal Force (TNDTF)
15. Tripura Rajya Raksha Bahini (TRRB)
16. Tripura State Volunteers (TSV)
17. Tripura Tribal Action Committee Force (TTACF)
18. Tripura Tribal Democratic Force (TTDF)
19. Tripura Tribal Sengkrak Force (TTSF)
20. Tripura Tribal Volunteer Force (TTVF)
21. Tripura Tribal Youth Force (TTYF)
22. United Bengali Liberation Front (UBLF)

Anonymous said...

I am arguing from the point of view of law and order. Illegal Bangladeshis are law breakers the moment they cross the border. They have to be treated as law breakers.
And I am not against just illegal muslims. whoever is illegaly crossing, be it muslims, hindus or whoever has to be deported back.
Have you heard the phrase "good fences make good neighbors"? It is entirely true in this case.

It is well known that Lashkar has a base in bangladesh which it uses to infiltrate into India, now that infiltration through Pak border is difficult.
Ulfa also directly receives support from within bangladesh.
ISI is quite active in Bangladesh and uses it as a base to create trouble in the north east.
When our intelligence agencies themselves say that infiltration through the Bangladesh border is a huge problem why should we not take notice?
Even the Supreme court has taken cognizance of the matter. It has taken a stand against the pro illegal friendly IMDT act but the congress does not repeal it.

I ask you - look at the current situation in Assam and the blasts that are taking place there. Where are the explosives coming from? Do you want there to be complete mayhem before we seal the borders?
If the Bangladeshis want they can come through the legal route, otherwise they are not welcome.

Anonymous said...

@kagaz ki kashti
We need strong leaders who have also political authority. Otherwise we will end up with another 5 years where the PM (Manmohan Singh) cannot select his own cabinet. We will get another non performing assets like Shivraj patil whose only qualification was to be a loyalist of Sonia G.
All these Pranab, Chidambaram etc have ZERO mass base and political support. Their existance as entities entirely depends on Sonia Gandhi.
Remember we are fighting a war against terrorism, we cannot afford to have a weak leader. This arrangement of having a puppet PM has been a disaster in internal security matters. There is no unity of purpose in the cabinet with each minsiter acting independently. Recall AR Antulay.

It will be criminal for the congress to foist another 5 years of such a failed experiment. If she has courage Sonia Gandhi should announce her candidature for PM, or at least Rahul Gandhi. At least we would get a strong PM who also has a political base and authority. If the BJP we will have the undisputed leader Advani as PM, if the congress wins we deserve the undisputed leader Sonia G or Rahul as PM.

Anonymous said...

People have talked about the Mangalore incident and attacked BJP.

Where were these sane voices when Taslima Nasreen was attacked in Hyderabad by a respected MP and his gang of goons in Hyderabad?Did the media then call for arrest of this so called MP?No he was left out in the open spewing venom against Taslima and calling her names?

No and they didnt stop there..there were protests in Kolkata against taslima where shops were forcibly closed and goons vandalised property. Was any one arrested?

During the protest against Danish cartoons, people traveling on the Delhi-Dehradun road were harassed, many private vehicles were burnt ( I myself saw my car put to flames in front of my eyes). How many arrests were made?

After the SIMI activists belonging to Azamgarh were picked up by the ATS at various places, there were violent protests all over the country .In Lucknow and Azamgarh a number of offices were burnt and buses put to fire. How many arrests were made?

Where was the secular media and so called secular ministers Renuka Chowdhry and MP Moily then?

Humanist said...

"Look anywhere u can, none of the muslims / psudo secularists have ever demanded / wished for such kind of 'justice'.
All they have ever tried / argued for, is deliverance of justice as per laws of India, as per constitution of India."
Multiple anons, read the above. Be it Kashmir or Bangladesh, we have always tried / argued / wished for justice / upholdment of our Constitution - unlike the right wingies who try / argue / wish for (and rejoice in) slaughter of muslims.

PS: "uniform civil code" has nothing to do with constitution, which provides personal laws not only for muslims, but for hindus (and many other communities as well). Read again, I was talking of our Indian Constitution, not BJP's manifesto.
"supreme court order giving alimony to muslim woman is not implemented" - every thing done in this case was as within the constitution.
(On a different note - what many people don't know, the husband was exempted from giving alimony in this case, but muslim community was made responsible for it - so the women is not left to herself - money for her care is provided for).

Anonymous said...

Uniform civil code is in our directive principles of the the Constitution. These are the expectations of makers of the constitution that should be implemented.
Can you imagine that inspite of being a part of the directive principles, only one party in India - BJP actually wants its implementation?
For your information Hindu laws were reformed in 1954 by Nehru even after some Hindu organizations protested. But since Congress had complete majority it could bulldoze those protests. But why were Muslim laws not reformed by the same Congress?

Anonymous said...

what is wrong with muslim law anyways? why should it be changed..?

pseudo secular said...

My responses below -

There is no case where a b'desi is caught and is being deported/punished, and any muslim/secular has opposed the deportation/punishment.
And don't give the crap ki cong govt doesn't do anything about it, ur party, modi's party was in power for full 5 years.

Kashmiri Pandits:
No muslims or seculars oppose their return to the valley - and whoever opposes it, is as big a traiter to the nation as u right-wingies.

Opposition to Tasleema:
Within democratic/peaceful means, people are allowed to voice their opposition to things. "democratic/peaceful means" is the key, which some of Tasleema's opposers don't understand (and they should be punished for it), just as opposers of Hussain don't understand and should be punished for their deeds. But even now, Tasleema is safer in India than Hussain. That shows - whose opposers are more inhuman.
[Note: The Hyd MLA who acted like a goon - I don't remember any conversation with any of my friends where I refered him with anything other than "gunda", I genuinely want him to be punished, and I genuinely want safe return of the Pts to valley, as genuinely as I want Modi and all the dangais, all those inhumans / traitors punished, ppl identified in Srikrishna commission report punished, butchers of Maliyana and Moradabad and Marad to punished.
But u right-wingies want anything as long as muslims are on the receiving side - what is important to you is not justice and rule of law (which is, to us seculars) but prosecuation of muslims.].

Humanist has covered it anyway. But to respond to anon - I'll prefer a shahbano to a roopkunwar anyday.

I wrote somethings proving that right wingies don't care about the Const, and we do. Here is another argument. Right wingies' objections start from secularism itself, "an integral part of the basic structure of the constitution".

Uniform civil code:
Again, humanist covered it. To yet another anon: "Uniform civil code" is not part of const, and never has been. Muslim PL and Hindu PL and PLs for some other communities in part of it. BTW, again it shows ur traitor tendencies when u disagree with some aspect of const because "nehru added it" (so u 'll agree with only those parts of const which Guru Golvalkar might ve added) ...

Muslims had their chance:
Somebody said that muslims had their chance, and killed N million hindus, which implies that slaughter of muslims is justified (and desirable). OK, but why limit the justice to muslims. Muslims ruled india just for few hundred years, and they killed each other with as much enthu as they did the hindus (in fact for the later part, it was mughal-rajput armies which ruled in india and killed indians. Anyway, jahangir onwards, ~50% blood in the veins of mughal emperors was rajput).
So let us go to pre muslim era as well:
- Kshatriyas should kill all brahmins, 21 times (more than 17, mahmood ghaznavi's dacoity trips to india) - Parashurama killed em as many times, check mythology (or history, as u prefer it)
- Ask your Professor P.N. Oak, how many people died in Mahabharat, trace ur linages, and go on building case for slaughter of clans who opposed that of urs in that mother of all wars.
- Remember what ashoka did to Kalinga. Shouldn't there be a Kalinga sena, which will target biharis (or knowing you guys), poor migrant bihari laborors in orissa.
- Aryans should be targeted by the dravidians.

So ......
Let us agree that punishment can not be inherited from earlier generations. So whatever previous generations did - it has gone with them.

Again, coming to my original point. In today's India, "Muslims / secularists have always demanded / wished / tried / argued for, deliverance of justice as per laws of India, as per constitution of India",

Which u blood thirsty right-wingies refuse / fail to do - u want those laws / justice / punishment / confirmance to constitution, when it is against muslims, and only when it is against muslims.

Partial / Conditional confirmance to Constitution, is treason.
Wanting partial justice an oxymoron.

pseudo secular said...

Something more on Personal Laws.
My 8th class text book defined freedom as "You are free to do anything but your freedom ends where my nose begins". So, if MPL (or any law) is affecting non muslims - non muslims must have a say in formulation of the laws. But if it oesn't, please STAY CLEAR. Do not intrude my freedom, cause urs ended where my nose began.

Changes in rules for a community, coming from within a community, are known as reforms. Same things, coming from outside ud be "denial of freedom".

Vaise, isn't it ironical, these people who wrote (and will write) "page bhar-2 ke" arguments about rights of moslem women here are the same ones who lionized the inhuman barbarians who raped these same women, killed / maimed them, their families, including their unborn babies, in gujarat and other riots. :(.

[God, please never ever forgive them, for they know what they do. :( ]

That again shows, that anything these right wingies do, opposing / killing / prosecuting muslims is the agenda. Nothing (justice, rule of law, humanity), absolutely nothing else matters.

Anonymous said...

Pseudo secular

Your language is absolutely distatsteful and shows your true colors.Its pointless arguing with people like you who just cant take others views. and you are lecturing others on Democracy and justice? Shame shame shame

Anyone who speaks for Hindus is a mindless right wingi..and those who speak for muslims is a secular person!!

Hypocricy, hypocrite, Double standards.

diva said...

Pseudo secular,

I have a doubt regarding your comments..Do u oppose uniform civil code jus bcoz BJP supports it...

A lot Of Indians also supports Uniform Civil Code...There is a tendency among Indian Muslims that "we will not support whatever BJP proposes or Does"....

Hindu Community developed to some extent jus bcoz of the reforms pursued by various reformers...
The Govt also enacted various laws so that several Social stigmas got eliminated....

Whats the problem is that muslims think that their way of life s perfect and there is no need of reforms...
Even when the govt tried to do some reforms,It is not encouraged by mullahs...Then these people start telling that the govt s discriminating against Muslims....
whenever the govt tries to do something ,it is termed as unislamic...
Jus like Abdul Kalam is termed not Islamic Enough jus bcoz he acts s a secularist.....Jus bcoz he thinks in terms of Indian rather than muslim...jus bcoz he thinks he s Indian first

The basic necessity is some reforms and this s where Uniform civil code s needed....

Anonymous said...

@pseudo secular
This enormous rant of yours has yet not answered why uniform civil code is not supported by anyone except the BJP.

For your information - uniform civil code is part and parcel of our contitution - it is part of the directive principles of state policy - something you should know if you have read history.

No where have I argued that muslims should be killed today for what their ancestors did in the past. But that does not mean we should forget about it. It is a fact that Muslims tortured Hindus when the ruled.
This argument only comes up when people justify terrorist attacks as a response to Babri Masjid or Kashmir or Gujarat. If that is the case then we can describe all these as a response to muslim atrocities over several centuries.

I ask you why is it that only BJP supports many issues that other parties shy away from.

The BJP is the ONLY major party that supports these demands:
1. uniform civil code
2. repeal of article 370 (a communal article if there ever was)
3. removing subsidies for Hajj and other pilgrimages
4. Hindus should have the right to set up institutions to cater to their own, like the minorities can
5. Granting Hindus the same status as minorities in areas where Hindus are in minority
6. Repeal of the pro-illegal bangladeshi IMDT act
7. Hindus temples should be under control of Hindus rather than government. Just like Muslims and christians control their places of worship.

Are the above demands communal?
No sane person would consider the above legitimate demands communal. But the ONLY party that supports these demands is the BJP! Have you ever wondered why BJP is the only party that supports the common civil code, even after it is part of the directive principles? Tell me why congress or any other of these secular parties shy from these legitimate demands, and then people complain about the rise of BJP because of its support to these demands.

pseudo secular said...

Lemme admit, after reading ur comment, I respect u, cause i feel unlike others, u have genuine reforms in mind when u argue about UCC.
But respecting u doesn't mean ki I agree to ur views.
As I said before, Reforms are reforms only when they evolve within a community. Imposition of rules from outside - is bound to be resisted. Offcourse, there is a line - a community can't be allowed to sanctify dowery killings and honor killings - but marriage, talaq etc are things which can be allowed to be decided by the community themselves. Let their be no imposition from outside, we can suggest / advice / help reformers within a community - but should not try to force what we feel right on them.
This is my view, u can agree to disagree. At least one prominent pseudo secular, Shabana Azmi also has argued in support of UCC.

Abdul Kalam: Well, Kalam saab refused to release some documents Narayanan wrote as President against Modi. This act of Kalam was not secular, it was a pure right-wingy act. Narayanan's was (who wrote that doc).
So the key is not that this act of Kalam wasn't muslim enough (I dont care), but I didn't find it secular enough (I do care).
Even vajpayee ji had spoken against gujarat, but kalam didn't :(.

pseudo secular said...

@Anon (29 January, 2009 06:25)
"language distatsteful", "cant take others views".
Hmm ... instead of counter arguments i get such comments now. :).

"Anyone who speaks for Hindus is a mindless right wingi"
No, anyone who speaks against humanity, against justice (or for, as i said before, partial / selective justice) is, not mindless, but an inhuman right-wingy. How can they be mindless - they have minds - cruel, inhuman, hateful, barbarian minds.

Pro hindu is never a problem. But ante-anything is. And u right wingies are not pro-hindu, but ante-muslim, ante-christian.

You know one of the best examples of real pro-hindu (and pro-human) - The missionaries* in whose schools (most probably) u got ur education - which developed ur minds to an extent where u can plot / want / argue for / support / delight in - attacks on their churches (and other properties) . Jis thali mein khaana usi mein ... anyway ...
*and more than 80% of students in their schools, patients in their hospitals are hindu, isn't it.

"and those who speak for muslims is a secular person"
Those who speak for humans regardless of their religion, are seculars.

"Hypocricy, hypocrite, Double standards."
Somebody who calls both Hyd MLA a gunda and Modi (and his cohorts) killers, is accused of "Hypocricy, hypocrite, Double standards."
:), Talk sense.

pseudo secular said...

@Anon (29 January, 2009 10:29)
UCC - u say is supported by Const. Well, Hindu and muslim marriage acts are there for sure I know (which implies that UCC is not there). But if it there and I don't know, please enlighten me.
And if it there also, we can always agree to disagree on this point.

u said: "No where have I argued that muslims should be killed today ..."
So do you want (and do u pray for) killers of (godhra / gujarat / maliyana / bombay) punished?
If yes, it is all fine - I support u.
If not (or partial yes) - if u consider urself to be a human, try to act like one.

Demands 1 to 7:
If BJP (and right wingies) were limited to this - it would ve been fine. We seculars don't hate em because of these issues (though we may disagree with them on those).

Why we hate the right wingies (i ll be repetitive here, excuse me): Modi & gujarat riots, butcher of maliyana (who should ve been tried and punished) made a BJP MP, Srikrishna commission report and related prosecutions, and many others (scroll up, u can see).
Problem is not only that they are not prosecuted - but that right wingies go on lionizing (and rewarding, and defending) these criminals (and try to ridicule anybody who speaks for justice).
Forget prosecution, they build a case for / desire / delight in / argue in support of, slaughter & rape of muslims (and now a days, christians too).

We pseudo seculars hate em cause their agenda includes denying the non-hindus even the "certain unalienable Rights ... Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness".
Forget baaqi 2, these right wingy inhumans deny right of LIFE itself.

Rise of BJP - well, world has seen hitlers and mussolinis getting elected too - but that doesn't make em less inhuman.

Anonymous said...

Somebody mentioned Article 370:
There is a story "Panch Parmeshwar" by munshi premchand, Jumman Sheikh, Algu Chaudhary, Jumman's boorhi mausi - jinhon ne apni zameen Jumman ke naam likh di thhee, with the understanding (or condition) that Jumman will take care of her

Anonymous said...

@pseudo secular
Again denail. Uniform Civil Code is one of the directive principles of state policy IN THE CONSTITUTION, i.e. something that the framers of the constitution expected the government to implement.
Now tell me, when this is the case, why is the BJP the only party that supports UCC?
Why is the BJP the ONLY major party supports the demands 1-7?
Many of those demands matter a lot to a section of society, so if BJP is the ONLY party that supports those demands then naturally a lot of people will support it.
If you hate the BJP it is your problem. There have been more riots in India during the Congress rule in India. Nobody in the BJP supporters the rioters, but if false allegations are made then they have to be refuted.
What about the congress which made Tytler and others who actually rioted MPs and mininsters?

Let me make myself clear once again - all rioters have to be punished, whether Hindu or Muslim. But there is not even a case or FIR against Modi, so why should he be targeted the way he is? Now the SIT of Supreme court is investigating the case, even it has not filed charges or found anything against Modi.
I just want to ask you, what would it take for the cacophony against Modi to stop, or is it that he should be punished without even an FIR against him? Will it stop if the Nanavati commission and the SIT of Supreme Court both find nothing against him? I hope so, but I doubt, cos pseudos never accept that they are wrong.

As far as Sri Krishna report, there is congress govt both in Maharashtra and the center. Why is it not implementing the report?

By the recently many victims of Gujarat riots testified that the FIR of rapes were false. They were not raped and false FIR claiming rape were filed on their behalf by pseudo seculars like Teesta Setalvad. I hope you would also want such people also punished.

Anonymous said...

WHom do the muslims consider as their best friend? Maulana Mulayam singh yadav. Why?Because he ordered car sevaks to be killed in 1990. Isnt he a murderer too?

Next is Lalu yadav. Why?because he ordered the arrest of LK Advani. Didint almost 50000 people lose their lives under the patronage of lalu? Isnt he a murder too?

Why do the pseudo seculars support them then? Do they even look at the color of the blood of a killed person?

diva said...

Pseudo Secular,
"As I said before, Reforms are reforms only when they evolve within a community. Imposition of rules from outside - is bound to be resisted. Off course, there is a line"
I too agree that there is a line.But who will decide that line.When the government tries to standardize madrasas and recognise them,some people in the muslim community terms it as intrusion in their way of life.They are worried that their power over the people will vanish.When will the Muslims speak out against these people.
When will u speak out against them if they act against u...U will never speak out against them and the govt has to think twice before taking a decision...mostly the gov never takes a decision...

The reason is Muslims vote as a bloc...I have heard my Muslim friends saying that they vote according to what their community leaders say(Im sorry if its not the case in ur locality.Its what i heard from my friends).So even if u people vote according to what ur community leader says,Pls select a good community leader.He should not block development and he should have a vision.
Im sorry if u find it patronizing...

Regarding Kalam,
If he really refused to release documents regarding modi,It should be condemnable.We need a greater deal of transparency in higher offices and this is missing in our country .Unfortunately, this is followed as custom in our country.
Its a big shame that Gujarat have occurred.But there is no point in merely condemning the attacks. If u can , Plz help the riot victims to get justice . Thats the way to go. But i see some muslims thinking of retaliations.Thats stupid bcoz they dont retaliate the attackers..They attack jus the innocent people thats pathetic... I have seen a lot of condemnations after the terrorist attacks from the political parties.Thats jus a political gimmick...Maybe Kalam thought he need not waste time in making mere condemnation.He s a visionary for India and I respect him for it.But plz dont expect people to flaunt their secular credentials each and every time...
But I agree that I may not understand ur mentality being from the majority community.

Anonymous said...


About Hussain: See, we empathasize that the Danish cartoonist had no business doing what he did... and Taslima saying what she says is again internal to Islamic community. If a Christian makes fun of Christ or so on...its their problem. But what moral authority and right does Hussain have poking his nose and denigrating Hindu' deities. Now dont make the sick lame excuse of artistic freedom - because his standards are exposed.

About Muslim law and my nose: I have no problem what the community does inside on marriages, divorce etc... but when you want your multiple wives to be baby making machines - it in my nose... because the birth control is not personal choice in this country anymore.

About Right wingies: Well... curse them, kill them,...but the double speak prayers of yours too a ironical.
"Allah, save the mujahid who kill and torture - because they are doing it for jihad...Protect the bombers and help them commit more suicide attacks...Bless the LET and JuD and HUJI and all 100's of terror groups because they carry araabic names when they kill thousands.... But kill these people - who are loud mouths and complain about the jihad... they are dangerous because they are making noises (only noises, they dont have any other guts)...but their noises are unislamic... kill them... Amen"...

-RIGHT WINGER or what ever you may want to call me...

Anonymous said...

When comparing Congress and BJP, atleast Congress is committed to bringing inclusive growth to all communities. Yes it has done many bad things but BJP is much much worse. They have killed muslims, christians, and god knows who else. How can we elect such people, who have no sympathy for its own people? Its like the hindu-taliban of india. And I am a Hindu saying this. They are terrorists. We need to get rid of them. Stop voting for BJP regardless of your religion. Their people kill minorities, they support hooliganism by shiv sena & ram sena, etc. Is it worth it? At a time when india is progressing and is touted to become a future superpower, can we afford to have such racist people running our country?

Vote for Congress ONLY, regardless of what. Because they are the only party committed to bringing progress and prosperity to India, and its hindus, muslims, sikhs, jains, and buddhists.

Anonymous said...

Also, manas shaikh wrote that we should come up with a third political party: the muslim political party.

i have a better idea:

why not create a party that promises to treat EVERY indian as equal,and bring progress and prosperity to every single Indian. This way you will get more votes, and also be able to make a larger difference in India, and bring it on the right path,.

Anonymous said...

Hindus and muslims need to stop fighting. Both communities have harmed each other at one point or another, hence the hatred between the two. You guys here debating who started it, or who did what, and claiming that hindus killing muslims is justified because they killed hindus first, need to STOP.

this will lead india NOWHERE. stop fighting. accept what has happened as HISTORY, and bring the victims justice. and MOVE on. work at briging india into developed world. india is a country for all ppl regardless of religion. i am a hindu, and i believe that india isjust as much for me as it is for any muslim or christian or sikh.

'lets live in peace and put in jail ppl like modi and tytler, and ban bajrang dal, BJP and RSS and shiv sena.


pseudo secular said...

@Anon 01 February, 2009 11:48
"stop fighting. accept what has happened as HISTORY, and bring the victims justice."
Can't agree more. Thanks.

On this same blog I ve called Talibans "inhuman, anparh, ganvaar & jahil", and wherever needed I write against right-wingies in muslim community.
Lanse Klusener was asked when he recklessly ran himself out with score tied in the semi-finals of WC, 'what did u feel about that - it lost South Africa a berth in finals and perhaps, the WC'. His response was, "so what, nobody died.".
So, as long as "nobody dies" I personally dont care much.
But in (godhra / gujarat / maliyana / moradabad / marad/ bombay riots / bombat blasts) people died. Hence I hate people responsible for these. Some of them (godhra / marad / bbb, who happen to be muslims, got / are in process of getting) the punishment they deserve - very good.
Remaining ones - well, u know the story. Forget punishment, they get idolized, praised, hero worshipped, elected to high offices by some people. It is these "some poeple", the right wingies, whom we pseudos hate.

"But i see some muslims thinking of retaliations. Thats stupid bcoz they dont retaliate the attackers"
I can't agree more with u. Thanks. And it is not only stupid but criminal, and they should be punished for it - anybody with innocent human blood on his hands (or even mind) must be.

"dont expect people to flaunt their secular credentials"
:( ... people were dying there ... Anybody should have done whatever they could against it. "whatever they could", (Teesta and Karkare tried to do more, and in the process earned hatred from these right wingies), Kalam did nothing. If it was chosing to not to waste time, i would say, laanat hai aise time par. He has a vision for the country (and gets admired for it), but was indifferent (at best) to the thousands of human lives belonging to the people of the same country being lost - or that, like right wingies, u (and Dr Kalam) believe that muslim lives are not human lives.

pseudo secular said...

@Anon (30 January, 2009 22:55)
Rioters / people trying to take the law in their hands / people trying to against a court judgement have to be controlled. By saam daam and if needed, dand.

"Do they (pseudo seculars) even look at the color of the blood of a killed person"
I 'll repeat: So do you want (and do u pray for) killers of (godhra / gujarat / maliyana / moradabad / marad/ bombay) punished?
Psedos want (and right wingies hate em precisely for it) - and which proves that pseudos see humans as humans (and not muslims and hindus). Which u inhuman right wingies refuse to do.

"laloo 50K ppl death"
U live on planet earth only na ...

@Anon 31 January, 2009 09:14
"your multiple wives to be baby making machines"
Talk sense. Females make babies. Right. Number of muslem females is not gonna increase if a male marries 4 of them. That number remains constant. Show commonsense atleast that of a "paanchvee paas".
Now that ur nose is safe, STAY clear from mine, if freedom means anything to u.

And where did u get the prayer from. Was it tought to u (as a prayer which muslims say) in a saraswati shishu mandir.

@Anon (30 January, 2009 20:53)

"Uniform Civil Code is one of the directive principles of state policy IN THE CONSTITUTION, i.e. something that the framers of the constitution expected the government to implement."
Give some reference if u have one, otherwise know that u are wrong.

"Nobody in the BJP supports the rioters"
:) - yeah, u don't need to. U r the rioters.

"all rioters have to be punished"
I can't agree more.

"There is not even a case or FIR against Modi ..."
:). None was against Suhrawardy either, and no jew filed any FIR against Hitler.

"Sri Krishna report, Why congress is not implementing"
Yeah, Congress should implement it, but not doing due to electoral reasons.
But u r saying that a party which is just guilty of not implementing a report should be hated. But the people who are identified as killer inhuman barbarians in that report should be praised / idolized / lionized / argued in favor of. Vaah.

"FIR of rapes were false"
:) ... and U use the word "denial" for me.

PS: As Adnan bhai wrote before also, nothing will convince people who can't stand the sight of moslems on these lands.

Anonymous said...

I dont know why my earlier post was deleted.

Man do a google search. We all learn it in civics in school that the Directive Principles are a part of the Constitution. Still for your reference it is the Part IV of Constitution and article 44 is the uniform civil code.
Reference : http://www.constitution.org/cons/india/const.html

As for Modi, the Supreme Court of India has appointed a Special Investigations Team which is going into all riot cases. It has not registered any complaint against Modi. Nor has Nanavati Commission found anything against him (yet). All I am saying is in case the SIT and the Nanavati Commission do not find anything against Modi, will this campaign against him stop or not? I hope it does, but I doubt.

Lastly you better read latest reports. A number of victims have deposed before the SIT and said that they were not raped and the affadavits filed on their behalf by Teesta Setalvad wrongly accused rape. This Teesta should also be prosecuted for this.
Here is a link, read it for yourself: http://www.indianexpress.com/news/sc-affidavit-wrong-didnt-know-what-we-signed-riot-victim/399007/

Anonymous said...

To much is highlighted when hindu does something wrong , but nothing is shown about why he did so.

even the riots started by muslims first in which thousands die we forget it(no court cases,no special trials,etc) and when hindus do something and hundreds die then the matter is highligted and culprits are sentenced easily. Why??? why govt. remains under pressure with muslim organizations of india and is never under pressure with hindu organisation.

Anonymous said...

"We Will Fu,We Will Fa.
Hum Ha,Hum Ha"

its matter of joy
new muslim site deployed
we will fu,we will fa
hum ha, hum ha
on the matters
highlighting the social causes

Some fake some real
doesn't matter
motive is to highlight the muslim
even for that boasting is better

we will fu,we will fa
hum ha, hum ha.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous said...

Oye Phir SE batwayega kya??

Anonymous said...

a lol chal phut le

Anonymous said...

Indian Mujahiddin requires you
Do you Agree

Anonymous said...

www.anindianmuslim.com is very informative. The article is very professionally written. I enjoy reading www.anindianmuslim.com every day.

sushilkp said...

0ne thing is for shure no one can satisfy a muslims belly. you give them the more the more they will demand, this is what they have been doing in kashmir . they have special provisions for kashmir in law . not once jandk have got a non muslim chief minister more than 90% in power in local assembly, all funds of jandk for benefit of kashmir central aids coming oftenly and frequently and still they say they are slaves. and one says slaves to whom, their own muslims. then where is the ptoblem.
actually kashmiri muslims are a big problem and threat to world and also to them selves. they want to rule the world and. i say their actions will close us to world war and total distruction.

The Mindset said...

Sorry, your analysis is one-sided, weak and biasd.
The recent performance of Congress in Bihar has shown that Congress the party which has held the centre for the longest is not at all worthy of any chance. Even independent MLAs are defeating Congress people.
You said ""lives and property would be safeguarded, riots will be checked effectively and we'll open schools, dispensaries and hospitals in Muslim concentrated areas."".....do you want everybody and everytime to bow to your demands, or you people like Isolation or you feel something wrong with public schools.
"Riots": I think non-Muslims are more afraid of riots than Muslims

xerion said...

Why are Indian Muslims asking for special laws for them. All persons in India should be equal in the eye of the Law. By not supporting UCC the Muslims in India have shown that they belong across the border. The Partition was based on religion, why do we have Muslims living in India who have allegiance to powers outside India (read Sharia). If Muslims are found to support Sharia which is Arabia law, then they should be deported to Pakistan where Sharia is supported by their constitution, because Pakistan was created for Indian Muslims.

Anser Azim said...

Nirmalya Chatterjee (Xerion): Very interesting and extreme views. In your opinion your way is the right way!! Are you advocating for another earth quack (after 1947) to accommodate 200 Indian Muslims..I believe you saw the results of your own sates (WB) in the recent parliamentary elections.. and what they mean to Indian politics!! Were you a witness/party to the post Godhra riots (Prof. Surekha G. Devi
your association with Dr Devi in that period of time)...Your views are pathetic!!! and are of great importance for the state department!!!

indscribe said...

Xerion [or Nirmalya Chatterjee or Niru]:

You look quite a sensible man and seem educated also but your comment again proves that good education alone can't clean a polluted mind.

Firstly, Muslims don't want any special law. If you talk about code regarding marital matters, there are laws for tribals and personal laws for several other communities also.

May be with time, they will also vanish. And even if someone makes a demand, it doesn't make any one anti-national.

However, I consider people like you as the real anti-Indians, as you left this country, but are hell-bent on creating wedge between Hindus and Muslims, by spreading such hate.

Perhaps, you are an paid agent from the neighbouring country or you are a lunatic or simply frustrated and burning with hate.

But you have no locus standi to question anyone's loyalty, patriotism or send anyone outside this country.

You losers can never understand what Muslims can do with anti-nationals.

From Ashfaqullah to Abdul Hamid, millions of Muslims have fought for this country's integrity.

Once I have let your comment appear on this blog. Now don't dare do this again. I hope you have understood it in plain English now.

Bengal produced great personalities like Subhas Chandra Bose. If only you could learn something from his life.

Your comment would be deleted. Be there wherever you are, either in Washington or wherever else. Let Hindus, Muslims, others live in harmony here. Just keep off this sacred, Hindustan.

Anser Azim said...

Thanks for standing up!!
best wishes