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Wednesday, April 01, 2009

Beard ban in school okay, not Taliban comment: Muslim schoolboy's case in Supreme Court

Muhammad Salim, 16, the son of a vegetable vendor, grew a beard and was expelled from the missionary school. His case reached the Supreme court where the judgment held that it was the right of a minority institute to frame its rules and allow or disallow student to sport a beard.

Yes, to enforce discipline, it seems correct to keep the beard out of school. I understand that for Sikhs it is a different issue. And though some Muslims feel strongly about the beard, it was never an issue before. If it was, it should have been raised forcefully and demanded as a right. However, there is something that is quite disturbing.

Supreme Court judge Markandey Katju, who is widely respected for his verdicts, remarked that 'We don't want Talibans in this country..tomorrow a female student may say that she wants to wear a burqa...can we allow it?'. This has come as a surprise.

[A] Linking beard to Talibans was unwarranted. Do all Muslims who sport beard are Taliban! Rajya Sabha MP Mahmood Madani has said that we condemned Talibans, issued fatwa against them and have opposed them all the while. How come we get equated with Talibanisation. The Talibans are, after all, an American creation.

[B] Across the country, there are hundreds of schools [mostly in poorer neighbourhoods] where Muslims girls wearing burqa not just go to school but also enter the class wearing veil or hijab. It happens. It's not Europe where Muslims have reached just 30, 50 years back and for them a Muslim [or even a Sikh] is still an outsider, someone with a different culture. However, they try to be sensitive.

[C] In Britain where Muslims hardly number 3%, Muslim policewoman is allowed to work wearing a hijab. Is it thinkable in India? It is not. Are Muslims alien to this country even after a 1,000 years. I don't ask for hijab-wearing Muslim cops in India but I don't welcome the Taliban comment either.

[D] A lecture to student on concentrating more on his studies than beard, would have been more appropriate for the dignity of court. It would have been much gracious to dismiss the matter & let the school and boy sort it out. I am not interested in keeping a beard but may be it was important for the boy to keep the beard. Most of us try to be more sensitive to others and their faiths. Has the War on Terror turned us so paranoid that we are exceeding the Westerners.

Salim is the son of a vegetable vendor and the school Nirmala Convent located in Vidisha district of Madhya Pradesh is not a government-aided institution. Still, the judgment may have an effect on government-aided schools as well. Already an airforce personnel is fighting a similar case, which is pending with the Apex court.

[D-1] Consider an important thing from legal aspect that was not mentioned at many places. There was no clause to ban beard in this particular school until a few years back. Recently the new clause was introduced. The Church officials accept that the parents of Muslim students were not consulted when the ban was imposed and it was not discussed in Parents-Teachers Meeting.

[E] I dislike any display of religiosity. But I am at pains to see that every government function begins with Bhumi Pujan and there is a temple in almost every police station in this country. Every second or third cop violates the Service Rules by sporting a Tika [tilak] and even President Pratibha Patil performed a full-fledged puja along with a pundit when the Air Force One was inducted in Indian army and went on maiden flight.

[F] Amid chanting of Mantras, breaking of coconuts and a tilak ceremony, the desi Air Force One took to skies on its inaugural VVIP flight on Wednesday with President Pratibha Patil heading for Assam and Arunachal Pradesh, reports Times of India. Hindi papers have detailed reports and photographs.

[G] Meanwhile, coming back to the comments. If you live in a new and posh locality, you may rarely spot a veiled girl going to school and if ever you come across you might find it unusual though for the residents of locality in old clusters or walled cities would not find it different. So perception too counts. And lately 'the Muslim' has become 'the Other' and 'the Fanatic', thanks to the negative media portrayal and failure of Muslims to counter that.

Photos: Muhammad Salim, Muslim police officials at Scottland Yard in London [England].

UPDATE: Salim allowed to keep beard, SC terms school order 'ridiculous'

The bench of Justices--BN Agarwal and GS Singhvi, on September 11, 2009 ordered the Nirmala Convent School to give admission to the student, Salim, who had earlier been expelled. The bench termed the order of the school principal as 'ridiculous'.

Will you stop the Sikh student for a similar beard? The court asked the counsel whether in future a dark student would be barred from studying (as he is not fair) or a girl student wearing a earring. The Sironj school will now have to re-admit the student. Earlier, Justice Markandeya Katju had expressed regret for his 'controversial' comments in the earlier order which he had withdrawn.

49 comments:

Mohammad Shahanshah Ansari said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
shrek said...

Completely agree with the title of your post. Just reiterates what I'd been telling my friends about the incident. as far as to say the "taliban" comment coming from a judiciary is shameful. But, I don't agree with a few points in the rest of the post.

How do we know said...

if there is one country where we CAN expect a hijaab clad policewoman, it is India. If she is in officework alone, she may even be found with a burqa over her uniform. I am sure of that.

When i read the report, even i took offence at the word Taliban used so literally. So there i would agree with your point.

But about poojas in public functions, India is a secular country, not a communist country. Meaning, there is not "No God" but "All Gods" In this case, the method of prayer adopted is called a Mandir, but if police station mandirs are anythng like the army mandirs, that one small place will have insignia of all religions - a picture of Mecca and a Cross as well.

What we fail to realise is that under the veneer, we are actually a very tolerant country and honestly, we are more worried about economics than religion, which, imho, is a VERY good thing. The polytheism of Hinduism and other Indic religions by itself allows for tolerance of other beliefs.

Amitabh said...

Please don't get hyper. He didn't use talibaziation for every muslims, only for the extremist muslims.

Sandeep Monga said...

Dear Adnan,U know that justice Katju is a very learned & respected judge & that is y we should read the whole judgement & then comment.May be he might have said the same thing if it was a hindu asking for some external symbol or sign to be dispalyed.Here let me say that as of now I also feel that this comment should not have been made & I feel offended.

saima said...

This is indeed shocking. Being in the legal fraternity I have personally seen some astounding judgements being delivered by Justice Katju, this judgement is quite shocking!!
He is a very learned man, and this was really not expected from a person of his stature!
Also, why is there no mention of this in the print media?

Anonymous said...

Tell me honestly how many decisions of the Supreme court do you discuss on this forum??

A more important issue was the one pertaining to ragging and the subsequent mental distress and god forbid, the deaths it has caused. did you even bother considering it as a potential post of yours??

Dont get me wrong but if you try to be so sensitive then I believe you will find something offensive being said anywhere and anytime. Even if he meant to say it in a light sense just because the News channels and the print media can not show his facial expressions while giving the judgment you seem to take it for granted that he was annoyed angry rude and insulting!!!

Also please do not mention the two in the same sense.. Him being a very learned person and him being so careless in passing such comments. Even this can be interpreted as saying that ' If a learned man owns such views the common one would be slave to these views!!'

Tell you what I am a Hindu and I had a big beard in my +2. Somehow wanted to look studious but now in college when I look back at those pictures It makes me feel ridiculous.Frankly speaking the school is wrong. Beard or no Beard should be a non issue but when there cases of national importance and grave injustice still pending in our courts someone taking up this kind of an issue in Supreme court is an even greater ac of stupidity compared to the one done by the school. So both are wrong.

Sometimes I feel we just dont want to coexist. Hindus find faults in Muslims and vice-versa. Honestly would we be even debating this topic if a Muslim judge would have said so?? Stop looking @ him as a Hindu. Just look @ him as a SC Judge!!

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
!!! said...

Adnan
If you ever go any office/policestation in Kashmir...u will find small mosques every where...? Would you quibble with that..?

Read the first para's of http://soulinexile.blogspot.com/2007/01/kp-exodus-day-19th-january-1990.html

There is a govt built mosque in Srinagar secretariat... And when the govt tried to do same in Jammu, Kashmiri Pandits ended up bearing the brunt of it in Kashmir (Anantnag riots) in 1986...

-A soul in Exile

!!! said...

BTW...Saima...It was on front page of TOI.

Mohammad Shahanshah Ansari said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
indscribe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
indscribe said...

@ Shrek: yes, the Taliban comment particularly was upsetting.

@ HDWK: Ya, We were all quite tolerant people and despite some issues lately, let's hope that we will remain tolerant though I am not always as optimistic about it.

@ Amitabh: Bhai this has been reported widely.

@ Sandeep bhai: Coming from him, I also felt shocked, as he is an eminent jurist.

@ Saima: It's reported at several places http://www.hindu.com/2009/04/01/stories/2009040155241000.htm

@ Anon: You are referring to Aman Kachroo case. I wrote at other blogs about the incident, as on this blog I don't write all the political and social happenings, it was not mentioned. I don't look at him as a Hindu. Where did you get this impression?

Anon: I don't agree. There are KPs who are bitter with Muslims but there have been excellent jurists (and people from all walks of life) among them.

!!! @: Yes I would strongly oppose it. There should not be a mosque on the premises of an official building.

!!! said...

Katju - a KP... Hahahhahahaa... well genetically maybe... Not sure if even he is aware of his KP roots...

You would probably attribute Varun Gandhi's diatribe to his 1/16th Kashmiri genes...

saima said...

oh..ok. there was no mention of this in the HT, which is the paper i read!
anyways, thanks!

urdudaaN said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anser Azim said...

There are two distinct ladies in this photograph (TOI: see below) representing two cultures and two faiths. Are we going to categorize them as representatives of taliban, safron brigade or bhindarwale brand of Sikkhism?. Sooner or later a Hindu will be sidelined for portraying religious pony, wearing mangal sutra, wearing dhoti and Khadi for the sake of blue suites, tie and jeans!!. I believe we got be knowing and respectful to each others faiths and some of the cultural diversities that exists in India. Indian strength is hers unity in diversity with 22 diverse languages and 22 cultutres etc. Without that we all will be a bunch of princely states like the divided India before independence.
best
anser

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshowpics/4350795.cms

Anser Azim said...

Indscribe:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.
com/articleshowpics/4350795.cms
the link is missing in my posting.
thanks
anser

indscribe said...

REGARDING KASHMIRI PUNDITS

The small community has produced illustrious personalities including the great secularist Pandit Nehru.

Brijnarayan Chakbast and Justice Anand Narayan Mulla are among a few others who are my personal favourites.

However, it is true that online one finds extremel hateful comments from KPs.

Though it is understable that because they had to leave their land, many of them bitter.

However, there are riot victims who also have to leave their land often.

I find it strange that many KPs tend to equate all Kashmiri Muslims as militants and though they recount horrors at the the hands of 'Muslims', they don't ever mention that nearly 1 lakh youths, men and women who have died in Kashmir, are mostly Muslim.

Quoting some of the notorious anti-Muslim websites of West, I receive long mails from such persons about what's 'wrong' with me and my religion.

The hate does disturb me but I have learnt to ignore these abusive messages that start with 'you killer' and 'you raped our motherland'.

However, it doesn't mean that I should generalise that KPs are againt Muslims. I have had several great friends who are Kashmiri Pundits.

Yuyutsu said...

I think you're over-reacting Adnan -- from my reading of the judge's comments, I think he was referring to the Taliban mindset and in no way was equating beard with terrorism or whatever.

Don't agree with some of your other points as well but I think I understand what you're trying to say.

@Urdudaan:

"The Muslims have already put immense trust in others by sending their candidates to non-Muslim institutions. "

I'm amused (and a touch irritated). So, should the 'others' feel honored that the Muslims have done them a favour by sending their children to their institutes?

And who exactly are the 'others'? Why does everything have to be 'us versus the others'?

Kundan said...

I used to hae high regards for your thoughts and beliefs. But this post has shocked me.In the garb of showing how offended you were with the judge's taliban comment, you have shown your real face here. You have a problem with temples in police stations, you have a problem with bhumi pujans, with coconut breaking, with cops sporting tilaks and with pratibha patil doing puja. You know what there's something called as tradition in this nation which saw the birth of hindusim. Hindus if they cant follow their religion where else will they go.

Tomorrow you may say there shud be no holidays when there's a hindu festival, people shud not be allowed to publicly celebrate hindu festivals?
BTW if sporting tilak or doing puja is bad, wonder what you have to say on bearded cops, iftaars by politicians, PM and prsident, netas wearing the topi and visiting mosques to clamour for votes..list is long.

I am also amazed to read you dont see a hizaab wearing girl working in India. I have seen so many of them in the buidling where I work. And if the number is less, then you need to ask yourself, how many hizaab wearing girls get proper education which makes them employable?

And BTW most schools in india dont allow hindu students to sport a tilak, wear a raksha sutra or even the sacred thread. have you ever heard any one compalin? If someone isnt comfortable with such rules of the school, they shift their wards to diff schools. Similarly if this student wanted to beard which was against school rules, why challenge the decision,why not move to a school where he is allowed to grow the beard.

And before you compare this cae to that of a sikh boy not allowed to wear turbans in france, let me tell you kangha and kesh are the way of life for sikhs and thei identity. Unfortunately a beard is not the identity of muslims and not even 15-205 of muslims in India whom i have met grow a beard.

Partng shot- isnt it the taliban who force men to grow beard?

indscribe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
indscribe said...

Yuyutsu @ I wish its true and hope that you are right about it.

Kundan bhai @ Sorry for letting you down. But kindly read the initial para graphs again, the post is about equating 'beard' with 'Talibanisation'.

As far as tradition is concerned, sorry there was no such tradition to perform bhumi pujan at official functions till late 60s and arly 70s.

Right-wing always has a design, which not everybody is able to perceive. It is true in so-called Islamic countries where things are worse.

In BJP ruled states Saraswati Vandana was introduced when the party came to power.

A few years and everybody believes that it is traditin. Just like RSS today stands as a synonym for nationalism.

And just like we agree on lot of things, on a couple of things we can disagree too. Can't we?

Anonymous said...

So many Hindu girls and teachers in Christian schools wear a bindi on their forehead. Shouldnt that also be banned. Secularism in India means equal respect to all the religions and this in no way affects the functioning of the school. This seems to be giving a wrong signal that muslims are not welcome in christian schools. It seems the Christian school is operating more under the french costituition rather than under Indian constituition.

Anonymous said...

With elections round the corner maybe the judge is trying to help a communal party like the bjp win the elections by polarising the society. This is definitely against the secular credentials of our constituition

Anser Azim said...

I think Beard has been a trade mark
and the pride of all Rishi, Muni's. A picture of Valmiki, All the Sikh Gurus, and the modern day leaders and reformers like Tagore and shiva Ji all sport a beard!!and becomes laughing stuff without it. It is astonishing that when a Muslim wants to sport a beard he becomes an extresmist. So the point is Thakres, and Modis are allowed to sport a beard but if a muslim guy imitates one of its traditions he becomes an extremist. All muslims do not pray five times but that does not mean who pray are extremists. This is islmophobia that has been instituted on many minds including this Judge. Same is true for many Sikhs who do not sport beard but if they start doing this they become Mr Bhindarwale. Or if any of our Hindu brother starts growing head tail and copying Mr Modis/Shiva Jis beard he becomes Mr Modi and Mr Shiv sanik....I think we have to rise up and grow a little bit more... Chhori chamche se khaoge to angrez banoge haath se khaoge to rustic/dehati/bhartya kahlaoge..these are attributes of inferiority complex!!!!!!!!!!

Parting Shot: All the terrorist who carried out the Mumbai attacks
were either clean shaven or spoting a mustache none of them had
the glorifying Taliban beard!!!!!!!!

Krishna said...

Indescribe,

Don't mix up Governament inagurations or departments with private institutions. Justice Katju only made observations that apply to this school case alone. If you want to contest the bhumi puja , I am with you, but remember inthat case let us change the definition os secularism to complete separation of state and religion . enforce uniform civil code, no sharia etc.
Talibanization(sounds harsh, true) in this case i guess is reference to religion invading public space too much. We have madrasas where there are strict dress code, no muslim girl will be allowed to come without burqa on top of those this case demands religion be accommodated at the cost of secular atmosphere of a private minority institute. If I file case that me a hindu must be admitted into madrasa and be allowed to come in jeans chewing gum or sporting tilak , will I be allowed. If No why?Same is the reason in this case. What is unreasonable in this. Yes burqa wearing and bearded if insisting can go to schools that accommodate, but why the school needs to change it's rules?

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,

"This seems to be giving a wrong signal that muslims are not welcome in christian schools. It seems the Christian school is operating more under the french costituition rather than under Indian constituition."
Shouldn't the question here be - do madrasas welcome christian students? Which constitution do they work by?

Anonymous said...

Indescribe,
"However, it doesn't mean that I should generalise that KPs are againt Muslims. I have had several great friends who are Kashmiri Pundits."

Apprecite this.


"they don't ever mention that nearly 1 lakh youths, men and women who have died in Kashmir, are mostly Muslim. "

For what and for who?Haven't most of those(non-sunnis) killed by sunni muslims. You are right this kasmir fight for freeedom is mainly by sunnis and other sects aren't very entusiastic and often get killed by militants. But that or riot victim troubles don't console tha KPs. Just like you can't tell guj riot victims about KPs and hindu victims of guj riots to console them.

urdudaaN said...

On a second thought, I don't agree that Beard ban is fine. Beard is something natural. It is not like a topi(cap), skull-cap, turban, bindi, burqa(veil) or a cross, which can all be considered as accessories.
Was he sporting a fake beard?

Such incidents can induce an unfortunate feeling among Muslims that they have a very conditional second-class place in democracies.

Anonymous said...

wow u guys sure as hell master the art of constructing a Mole Hill!!!

Kundan said...

Tomorrow some student in a convent school may come up and say I dont want to recite the verses of bible in the morning assembly, it goes against my religion.

Before going to a school one shud know what to expect there. If you want to practice ur religion, go to a religion oriented school, why go to a convent or a public school?

Lokesh said...
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indscribe said...

Kundan Sahab: The problem is that if you are going by school laws then they are at fault. They didn't have a rule on beard ban. They recently introduced it and accepted that they didn't take parents in confidence.

However, I still favoured the ban and you aren't satisfied even then. If you have to simply argue then there is no end to it. Beard is natural. There have been issues on bindi as well.

@ Lokesh bhai: I took objection to it. Please read again my comment. However, you perhaps have no idea the amount of hatemail I get and abuses about my faith, daily.

Anonymous said...

Even I felt bad about the Taliban comment. However, I like the comment that "Secularism limits can not be overstretched". In India the definition of secularism has changed completely. It is not "People of all religions have equal rights and have equal chance to grab an opportunity". It is "Rub the nose of Hindus the wrong way, create a rift between Hindus and non-Hindus and then appease non-Hindus at the cost of Hindus". This is the new mantra, politicians such as Mulayam and all congress politiicians are using. Though it is not fault of Indian Muslims, it does create an impression in the rest of the people that these people(Yes, the rest start disassociating themselves with them) can do what ever they want but no one dares(for the fear of loss of votes) to take action against any true criminal just because he is a Muslim. It does create frustrations among people. Probably it is hidden among everyone.

I could not stop wondering why that boy is going to school. How come his parents did not stop him from pursuing his case? More than the boy, his parents allowed him to puruse his case. Their priorities in life will be questioned. No matter what.

Anonymous said...

If we, Indians are secular, in true sense then why not have a beard guy allowed in school. Is our secularism is threatend by such acts of following one's religious duties/symbols???? If some one dose a mundan(shaving off head as is done by HIndus/Buddhist/Jains) so will this school allow that student to attend the school?If somebody keepsa pony-tail (shikha) will this school allow the student to attend the school? i guess all this being done to keep the muslims in their place... they dont want muslims sport their trade marks features in public spaces any longer. I have seen may people who comments , when they see womens in hijab that, how come there are so many muslims in this area??? They are, many times surprised, when they see muslims in their traditional attire , both men-women, especially if thet-y are visiting a new place for the 1st time.And anyways i think if u have beard, it dosent mean that you are part of Taliban. What Taliban is doing is that, they are forcing people to a keep a beard, and if somebody wants to keep a beard voluntrily, he is not taliban. the bottomline is that.... these things must apply to all communities at all schools in that case without offending the religious beliefs of the community,. What harm was Salim doing by keeping the beard??? Is there any harm to society ... to nation.. to any other community if someone called salim keeps a beard in school.

Anonymous said...

This further establishes that Indian Muslims have pitifully failed to educate nonMuslim about our religious tenets and our heritages.Hence, like the blind each draws his own perception about Islam!now, as never before, warm wind is blowing. Let us keep our cool.Ere long people will realize
the mistake and make amends.

!!! said...
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!!! said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
!!! said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
indscribe said...

!!! [Soul in Exile]: I know what Kashmiri Pundits have suffered but should some of them simply abuse the religion of Muslims all the time.

Still, this is the reason I don't argue with you as I understand the pain of leaving one's land.

Come on. No where have I tried to justify. I simply said that deaths of thousands of local Kashmiris can't be ignored.

Anonymous said...

Sir,In my frank opinion this is a spurious discussion.

Judge Katju's "Taliban" statement might sound alarming and disparraging to a lot of indian muslims however it must be looked as per the context of the case.

why Mr.Salim the son of a "Vegetable vendor" went all the way to the "Supreme-Court" for keeping his beard ? Isnt that an incredible feat in itself ? Is our Supreme Court now going to be used for such verdicts ? Having experience with court cases i can say that at the bare minimum this would require a lot of money,time and energy ? Why was this money,time and energy being directed to a purpose such as these by a 16 yr old boy.If this case was settled at a lower level i might have had sympathy for the boy but the mere fact that he has gone to the supreme court really does anger me and forces me to question what was he trying to do (and the elders with him).I can sympathise with Judge Katju's anger when he finds a 16yr boy standing in front of him to keep his beard !!!!! No Sir,this is as unacceptable as was Ram Sene actions in Banglore and both point to religious fervent over-riding common-sense.

The only unfortunate outcome of this case is the un-necessary "insult" taken by some muslims by Katju's statement.Maybe even Hindus were insulted when Ram-Sene were accused of Talibanisation of India but both so called "insults" are over-indulgence in their "I am a VICTIM " psycology.In reality it has got nothing to do with them and that is a FACT.

JaLpArI said...

while i do agree that the comment was in bad taste... im not in favour of the boy.
i believe that the school, if run by a private institution, has the right to decide the uniform for its students.
it does seem odd that it's beards and skull caps which wudn be allowed but a Sikh turban wud never raise questions... and btw, i studied in a convent and 'raksha' and 'tilaks' were never opposed; just mentioning this coz' sumone in his comment told that rakshas are not allowed. in my school it was only 'Rakhis' that were not allowed. anyways...

in any case, Saleem shud hv simply moved to a Govt. institution or any other place which does allow beard.

and regardin the bhumi pujas etc.. well, i don know if they started in the 20s,60s or 90s.. but, i dont see anything wrong in people performing a puja if majority of the people ARE Hindus. like someone pointed out in a comment, India is Secular, not Communist. If a Muslim dsnt like the idea of attending a puja, no one can force him to attend, no one can force him to eat the prasad... but, newaz, that Muslim cannot expect the majority to change their beliefs coz of him.
likewise, i don see anything wrong if Kashmiri stations have mosques, coz' Kashis are mostly Muslims (hai na?)

i study in a college under Govt.Of Kerala and beards and skull caps and purdahs are allowed to our Muslim students. i dont know the scene in colleges and schools of other State Govts., and those institutions under the Centre (as in the UTs)... if any Govt. institution bans the beard or the hijab, a Muslim shud most definitely fite it... but, if the ban is by a private org... just overlook!

Anonymous said...

I have seen musharraf and other pakistani politicians praying with unfolded hands and eyes closed(I don't know what) before inaugrating anything like roads,buildings,projects,etc. So,this is allowed but no bhumi pujan should be. Muslim if in majority can enforce their laws but others can't according to you.

I tell u what if muslims were a majority in India then they would have surely declared this nation a nation based on Religion and would have enforced their rules. And if any hindu had expressed the way u express ,then uska sar kalam kar dete tum log. khud ke time pe to sari manmani karte ho lekin dusro se achchayio ki ummid karte ho. kam se kam is des mein tum log minority hone ke wabjood khule ghum rahe ho saare ke saare rights mile hain tumhe. Zara un 2%pakistaani hindu ki khabar lo aur dekho kaise jite hain wo. kabhi kabar unki paresaaniyon per bhi nazar dalni chahiye.....nahin.....ok I know u can't. But coz of u people Hindus will vanish after 100 years coz only land of their (indian subcontinnent) is being slowly and gradually captured by Muslims.

Anonymous said...

Again the same old victim theory. No one said Muslims are all Taliban.

But to enforce your own laws in the name of religion sure sounds like Taliban. If the missionary school has rules then they must be obeyed or your free to chose another school. Tomorrow some Hindu will say I want to carry weapons to school because all Hindu Gods have weapons..crazy!

When you associate Islam with a beard..then the only people who did that recently were Taliban. It is then obvious that's how you think, like "Taliban" and hence the comment

The Quran does not mandate anyone have a beard..unlike the Sikhs who are supposed to.

Now to this negative coverage on Muslims. If that was true than the Hindu Holocaust in Kashmir would be on the news all the time, instead we only hear of Gujrat Pogorom.

Now here is a negative but true comment...20% of the world is Muslim, they control 90% of world's energy and yet we don't have one Muslim nation the worth name and power in proportion to the resources. Is that negativity or the truth. Something is wrong with today's Islam.

Why did it go from a glorious past to a pathetic present. Because

1. Victim mentality & blaming others alone for your problems, rather than self improvement. Therefore fueling hatred and killing others rather than uplifting oneself and the Ummah.

2.Unlike the past, the current Islamic society lacks leaders, with character,dynamism & scientific attitude.

3. Lack of tolerance for diversity.

Now to that Pooja comment.Most Muslim countries have a strong bias in favor of Islam. The minorities have a second class treatment and minimal rights..i.e if they are left alive and living in the first place.

In India, even after the fact that Muslims partitioned it in the name of religion and Hindus chose secularism...we are also supposed to feel ashamed/or give up our rituals and culture. How many nations do the Hindus have? Where should we practice? The one that we had we shared that with you and let u live with us..despite you complaining that Muslims can't live with Hindus..and hence the Pakistan.

Hinduism is the religion given to us by sons of this land. It did not come to us from Arabia or Israel or Turkey that we must follow other foreign rituals. We respect them but don't force us to adopt some Semitic way of life.

If that's what u wanted then we gave away a Pakistan from our beloved mother India. You are and were free to migrate there. Now let all of us live in peace.

There is no pooja, tilak over there in pak..only mullahs, beards, burqas, and HATE (some real Islam too..maybe)..and now even Taliban.

The same Taliban who blew away the Bamiyan Buddha and so many Muslims in India were seen protesting on streets against this UnIslamic act..yeah right!!. Protests only happen when we have ugly cartoons.. I am sure that gesture wud have gotten some positive press comments but that as usual it did not happen...I feel Muslims love negative press..gives them more reasons to feel victims and complain..like that will solve anything.

There must be a victim Taliban theory and it will go like this

"The Jews & RSS are the ones who created & corrupted Taliban so that it could do horrible deeds and give Muslims a negative image....It's all the fault of RSS & Jews and we Muslims get negative press...oh those poor Musilms!

Rationalist said...

I disagree with the school's idea of banning 'religious' beards. I don't think that has anything to do with the school being Christian and intolerant of other faiths. I think they wanted to preserve discipline in the school by disallowing possible fancy beards, jelled hairs and the like. But if beard is grown for religious reasons, it should be allowed - unless they also ban tilaks, bindis and turbans. A reasonable policy by the school would have prevented this issue from happening.

Regarding the Bhumi Puja issue - many people here seem to equate being secular with the license to practice some religion in government institutions. This cannot be farther from truth! Being secular means the state doesn't have an official religion. So there can be no mandirs or mosques or little churches inside goverment institutions such as police stations. Religion is a personal thing, it is not state's business except that the state protects your freedom to practice any religion : That is secularism. We have declared ourselves secular, let's be true to that.

We cannot compare ourselves with Pakistan and say that since Musharraf or some Pakistani official is praying at inaguration we can do the same. Pakistan is not secular, it has an official religion. India is secular, has no official religion.

mustafa said...

SUPREME COURT FAILS THE VERY TEST - WHICH IT IS SUPPOSED TO EMBODY - JUSTICE AND EQUALITY

Being secular to the core, I would like to sum up all arguments by a simple statement that the Judge was being biased, narrow minded and fickle headed - coz - did he consider the fact that we have rules which allow sporting of beard and wearing of turban - which I think is perfectly correct - coz the ethos of the Constitution are based on the fact that we respect the sentiments of all religion - then why this Judgment, which was further aggravated and "criminalised" by the statement of "talibanisation" ! Justice Mr Kundan - I guess you have violated and murdered Justice and Equality by your verdict and further Raped it with your statement !
I THINK THE JUDGE DOES NOT QUALIFY BEING A JUDGE IN THE SUPREME COURT - WHERE ONE HAS TO FIRST SEE AND LOOK AROUND - COMPARE AND HYPOTHETICALLY ANNALISE BEFORE EVEN MAKING A STATEMENT LEAVE ASIDE GIVING A JUDGMENT !

mustafa said...

MR KUNDAN, MR AMITABH AND OTHERS - WHILST I RESPECT UR VIEW POINTS - I HAVE THE FOLLOWING TO SUBMIT

THE POINT BEING BROUGHT OUT IS THAT - BHUMI PUJA IS PERFECTLY FINE COZ IT SOLIDIFIES SOMEONES BELIEF AND FAITH IN A MACHINE / NEW FACTORY OR WHAT EVER - THERE IS NOTHING WRONG IN IT - IT IS GOOD - COZ IT LEADS TO SAFETY, WELL BEING, TRUST ETC .

NOW ON THE SAME LINES - BEING A SECULAR COUNTRY

SOME ONE WANTS TO SPORT A BEARD OR A CHOTI OR A TURBAN OR A BURKHA - HE / SHE IS DOING IT FOR HIS BELIEF - AND IS DEFINITELY NOT BEING VULGUR - SO WHY SHOULD IT HURT THE SENTIMENTS OF SOMEBODY ELSE - LEARN TO LIVE N LET LIVE !

COMING TO THE SAID SCHOOL - THEIR RULING IS PERFECTLY OKAY IF THEY ALSO DO NOT PERMIT ANY OTHER PRACTICE AS MENTIONED ABOVE - ELSE IT IS DISCRIMINATING - WHICH I AM SURE YOU ALL WILL AGREE

THIS IS WHAT I MEANT WHEN I SAID THAT THE JUDGE SHOULD HAVE WEIGHED AND REASONED IN TOTO AND NOT IN ISOLATION AND SHOULD HAVE GIVEN A RATIONAL DECISION

FURTHER SUCH "LIGHT" COMMENTS FROM A JUDGE ARE NOT ACCEPTED - COZ I GUESS HE IS NOT A JOKER / COMEDIAN! HIS STATEMENTS MUST BE MEASURED AND WELL THOUGHT - THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS LISTENING AND HIS JUDGMENT WOULD BECOME PRECEDENCE

mustafa said...

I DO AGREE WITH THE VIEW OF THE RATIONALIST - AND TRUE TO HIS / HER IDENTITY HE / SHE IS BEING VERY RATIONALE

KUDDOS TO YOU

JAI HIND